Turn Off Ads?
Page 11 of 13 FirstFirst ... 78910111213 LastLast
Results 151 to 165 of 189

Thread: Reds sign Mark Prior

  1. #151
    Member smixsell's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    San Jose
    Posts
    1,177

    Re: Reds sign Mark Prior

    Quote Originally Posted by RichRed View Post
    How delicious would it be to see Mark Prior contribute to a playoff-bound Reds team, under the manager who "ruined" him, no less? The gnashing of teeth in Cubsland would be the most joyous thing ever.
    ....this was EXACTLY my first thought.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #152
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    7,067

    Re: Reds sign Mark Prior

    Wow. Is this thread still going? 11 pages to discuss overworking a pitcher. Hmmm.

    No thanks.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  4. #153
    Member klw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    6,521

    Re: Reds sign Mark Prior

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I would hypothesize that we're still in a place where we're over-genericizing things. While training, nutrition and bio-mechanical analysis have improved, the human physique is still essentially what is has always been. I would imagine that pitching is much like any physical activity and repetitive use injuries (even those that culminate in a traumatic event) are in large part of a function of the specifics of a given pitcher's body -- it's "design", it's recovery rate, etc.

    One thing not taken in to account is the selection effect. If pitchers in the 60's were expected to throw 300 innings, the ones who were particularly susceptible to repetitive use injuries were more likely to get injured via overuse early in their baseball careers, lose effectiveness and fail make/establish themselves in the major leagues to begin with.

    Would Rich Harden or Mark Prior have "survived" long enough to make the majors in 1966? It's possible that the pool of major league pitchers 40 years ago had already been filtered of it's most injury prone pitchers, making it appear that the average pitcher had greater ability to give innings. It's also quite possible that a number of pitchers today could be 300 inning guys were they given the opportunity to do so.

    Add in the lack of the slider, an extremely stressful pitch to throw, and the increase of power throughout the lineup requiring a more sustained effort of the pitcher and it's easy to see the variety of explanations adding up.
    I wonder how much of a change the college system is today. It seems to me (and this is simply my impression- I have not looked at numbers) is that more potential players go to college now instead of into the minors. (didn't the Cardinals once have over 30 minor league affiliates?). With the minors being there teams could develop a player for longer as it saw fit. Colleges, however, do not necessarily have a long term view for the player and if they do it is not necessarily consistent with how a pro team wants to use him. this can delay a pitcher's inning growth or have it occur in an inconsistent pattern. I wonder if this effects long term ability to handle innings.

  5. Likes:

    CySeymour (03-12-2013), remdog (03-07-2013)

  6. #154
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Brownsburg, Indiana
    Posts
    15,268

    Re: Reds sign Mark Prior

    I think there are a lot of colleges out there that abuse arms.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  7. Likes:

    dabvu2498 (03-08-2013)

  8. #155
    Stat geek...and proud
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    New Paris, OH
    Posts
    2,595
    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN INDY View Post
    I think there are a lot of colleges out there that abuse arms.
    Wasn't Leake used very heavily his last college year? Seems like I remember that.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
    numbersinthereds.blogspot.com I actually made a post on 10/17/14. I promise.

  9. #156
    Member crazybob60's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Bowling Green, KY
    Posts
    968

    Re: Reds sign Mark Prior

    How has Prior actually been doing out in Spring Training thusfar?

    Has he actually seen any game action as of yet or are they still giving him a look?

  10. #157
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,581

    Re: Reds sign Mark Prior

    Quote Originally Posted by crazybob60 View Post
    How has Prior actually been doing out in Spring Training thusfar?

    Has he actually seen any game action as of yet or are they still giving him a look?
    He is in minor league camp. Has not seen time with the Major League team.

  11. #158
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Carmel, IN
    Posts
    2,256

    Re: Reds sign Mark Prior

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN INDY View Post
    I think there are a lot of colleges out there that abuse arms.
    Isn't Rice one college that is notorious for abusing pitchers?

    College coaches aren't responsible for getting college pitchers to the pros. They're paid to win games, and a lot of times they do that by riding their best pitchers too hard. Not saying it's right or wrong, it's just the way it is.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  12. Likes:

    RANDY IN INDY (03-12-2013)

  13. #159
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Winton Place
    Posts
    11,196

    Re: Reds sign Mark Prior

    Quote Originally Posted by gilpdawg View Post
    Wasn't Leake used very heavily his last college year? Seems like I remember that.

    Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
    According to TheBaseballCube.com he was in 19 games his senior, starting 18 of them. He had seven complete games and 2 shutouts; also recording one save. He threw 142 innings.

    That compares to his first two years where he appeared in 23 games (12 starts) and 19 games (16 starts). Both seasons he threw two complete games. His inning counts were 117.2 and 121.1 respectively). These were his age 19 thru 21 seasons.

    As a comparison, here are Arroyo's numbers for the same three seasons (his 2nd thru 4th minor league years). All were starts except one relief appearance in season three.

    26 games, 135.2 innings
    24 games, 160.1 innings
    23 games, 127.0 innings

    I'll leave the call to others who are more familiar with what a heavy workload is.
    In the same way that a baseball season never really begins, it never really ends either. - Lonnie Wheeler, "Bleachers, A Summer in Wrigley Field"

    The Baseball Emporium - Books & Things, that's Rallyonion.com

    The Baseball Bookstore

    http://tsc-sales.com/
    http://tscsales.blogspot.com/
    http://silverscreenbooks.com/

  14. #160
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Hamilton, OH
    Posts
    2,768

    Re: Reds sign Mark Prior

    Quote Originally Posted by redsmetz View Post
    According to TheBaseballCube.com he was in 19 games his senior, starting 18 of them. He had seven complete games and 2 shutouts; also recording one save. He threw 142 innings.

    That compares to his first two years where he appeared in 23 games (12 starts) and 19 games (16 starts). Both seasons he threw two complete games. His inning counts were 117.2 and 121.1 respectively). These were his age 19 thru 21 seasons.

    As a comparison, here are Arroyo's numbers for the same three seasons (his 2nd thru 4th minor league years). All were starts except one relief appearance in season three.

    26 games, 135.2 innings
    24 games, 160.1 innings
    23 games, 127.0 innings

    I'll leave the call to others who are more familiar with what a heavy workload is.
    That is good info.

    It would be interesting to see how many pitches Leake threw in those complete games. There are two ways to overwork a pitcher. Too many innings in a season without sufficient rest between outings, and too many pitches in a game (or even an inning). Things like insufficient time to warm up, pitching while hurt or fatigued, or poor mechanics also affect how much you can throw without being overworked.

    One additional factor is the pro season is much longer than the brief college season, so those innings were likely spread out more thinly for Arroyo than Leake.
    Last edited by AtomicDumpling; 03-12-2013 at 01:30 PM.

  15. #161
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,581

    Re: Reds sign Mark Prior

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    That is good info.

    It would be interesting to see how many pitches Leake threw in those complete games. There are two ways to overwork a pitcher. Too many innings in a season without sufficient rest between outings, and too many pitches in a game (or even an inning).

    One additional factor is the pro season is much longer than the brief college season, so those innings were likely spread out more thinly for Arroyo than Leake.
    Most schools start playing in Mid-February. Some play through Mid-June. That is 5 full months. The minor league season is April-August. That is 5 months.

  16. #162
    Pimpin...literally!!! dubc47834's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Terre Haute, In
    Posts
    1,493

    Re: Reds sign Mark Prior

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Wow. Is this thread still going? 11 pages to discuss overworking a pitcher. Hmmm.

    No thanks.
    You opened it...and posted in it!!! You help in keeping it going. I find it good reading!!!

  17. #163
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Hamilton, OH
    Posts
    2,768

    Re: Reds sign Mark Prior

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Most schools start playing in Mid-February. Some play through Mid-June. That is 5 full months. The minor league season is April-August. That is 5 months.
    The college season is more like 4 months or less and they play fewer games and they don't have 5-man rotations and they don't play Spring Training games like pro players do.

  18. #164
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,581

    Re: Reds sign Mark Prior

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    The college season is more like 4 months or less and they play fewer games and they don't have 5-man rotations and they don't play Spring Training games like pro players do.
    They do play fewer games, but the starters go once a week. Most teams probably do play 4 month seasons, but some play 5. Arizona State is the kind of team that was playing 4.5-5 month seasons with the CWS. They don't have spring training like the pros do though.

  19. #165
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Hamilton, OH
    Posts
    2,768

    Re: Reds sign Mark Prior

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    They do play fewer games, but the starters go once a week. Most teams probably do play 4 month seasons, but some play 5. Arizona State is the kind of team that was playing 4.5-5 month seasons with the CWS. They don't have spring training like the pros do though.
    Yeah it is not a huge difference, but I would rather see my young hoss spread his 140 innings over 5 months instead of 4 months. It gives his arm more time to recuperate between outings. It is just a point to keep in mind when comparing innings thrown between amateurs and pros.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25