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Thread: 2013 MLS Thread

  1. #76
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    Re: 2013 MLS Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by reds1869 View Post
    Probably a pretty good rating. Those are pretty solid leagues in the grand scheme of things. I would say the top teams in MLS are above that standard though. As some one who watches the league every week I am continually amazed at how rapidly it is improving. The biggest difference between MLS and a top flight league are finishing and first touch skills.
    MLS is improving, but really the league was so absurdly bad as recently as 5-6 years ago that it had nowhere to go but up. Even now, I doubt any current MLS side would avoid relegation in the EPL if it were to play there for a full season. It's to be expected, though, when you consider that club football didn't even exist in this country as recently as 20 years ago.
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  3. #77
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    Re: 2013 MLS Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    The MLS isn't on the same level as the English, German, Italian, and Spanish (sorry I didn't call them by the right name). Granted most of the top leagues are top heavy with a few great teams and the rest of them average.
    Which is pretty much what I said and what that article said. There is, in fact life outside of the big four leagues. A lot of people don't seem to realize that. Watch the second tier in those countries or the top tier in others and get back to me. MLS stacks up nicely.

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    Re: 2013 MLS Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    MLS is improving, but really the league was so absurdly bad as recently as 5-6 years ago that it had nowhere to go but up. Even now, I doubt any current MLS side would avoid relegation in the EPL if it were to play there for a full season. It's to be expected, though, when you consider that club football didn't even exist in this country as recently as 20 years ago.
    The problem is comparing MLS to the EPL or even the Bundesliga, which are, top to bottom the best leagues in the world. Spain, Italy and Russia have great teams at the top, but middle of the table and lower is very inconsistent. The only reason they stay close in games with the top teams is by "parking the bus." In France and The Netherlands, I think most MLS teams would hold their own. In Scandinavia, Central and Eastern Europe, the better MLS teams would likely win the league and none of the MLS teams would get relegated.
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    Re: 2013 MLS Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Australian Red View Post
    That article doesn't mention anything about the standard of football being played tho.

    "The study brings into account attendances, finances, goals, competitiveness, caliber of players and managers, stadiums and success in continental competitions"

    I wonder if the MLS lost points in that "study" for still calling it's self Soccer? If we wore looking at standard of play I would rate most teams similar to the Mid-low English Championship or High to Mid Dutch Erdevise league.
    Get back to me when the Italians stop calling it Calcio. We didn't invent the term "soccer," the English did. It's just the name that stuck here. We still play the same game by the same rules on the field. The whole notion that the US game is inferior because of the name was started by snobs in England who seem to be offended that we have another popular sport that goes by the name of football.

    Besides, any points we lose based on what we call the sport are probably regained based on the fact that we haven't had any match fixing scandals or teams go into administration.
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    Re: 2013 MLS Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by reds1869 View Post
    Which is pretty much what I said and what that article said. There is, in fact life outside of the big four leagues. A lot of people don't seem to realize that. Watch the second tier in those countries or the top tier in others and get back to me. MLS stacks up nicely.
    I don't necessarily mean to knock the MLS. I don't find myself watching it much if at all. Recently I have gotten into watching the EPL sometimes as background viewing if I am doing something else. Other times I will tape a game and watch the 2nd half.

    I don't know the dynamic between the US Soccer and MLS. I don't know if US Soccer has any goals to push the competitiveness of the MLS. From my perspective, the more players in Europe the better for the USMNT. Dempsey is pretty much considered the best American player. Just by stepping on the field he is better than the rest of the competition. My question is will he be able to further develop playing against lesser competition or will he stay the same.

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    Re: 2013 MLS Thread

    Almost every player on the USMNT right now has played or does play in the MLS. The talent level is there and is improving. You can play in the MLS and be an elite international player. Dempsey will be fine because he is a super talented player who is going to score a whole bunch of goals between now and Brazil.

    I think most people who are concerned about Dempsey losing his skills coming to MLS, don't watch very much MLS.

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    Re: 2013 MLS Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I don't necessarily mean to knock the MLS. I don't find myself watching it much if at all. Recently I have gotten into watching the EPL sometimes as background viewing if I am doing something else. Other times I will tape a game and watch the 2nd half.

    I don't know the dynamic between the US Soccer and MLS. I don't know if US Soccer has any goals to push the competitiveness of the MLS. From my perspective, the more players in Europe the better for the USMNT. Dempsey is pretty much considered the best American player. Just by stepping on the field he is better than the rest of the competition. My question is will he be able to further develop playing against lesser competition or will he stay the same.
    That goes back to my comment above -- he's 30 years old. There's no significant development left to be done, really. So from the USMNT perspective, what they need/want is for him to maintain form and stay healthy for the next year or so.
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    Re: 2013 MLS Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I don't necessarily mean to knock the MLS. I don't find myself watching it much if at all. Recently I have gotten into watching the EPL sometimes as background viewing if I am doing something else. Other times I will tape a game and watch the 2nd half.

    I don't know the dynamic between the US Soccer and MLS. I don't know if US Soccer has any goals to push the competitiveness of the MLS. From my perspective, the more players in Europe the better for the USMNT. Dempsey is pretty much considered the best American player. Just by stepping on the field he is better than the rest of the competition. My question is will he be able to further develop playing against lesser competition or will he stay the same.
    I think European experience is good for younger players, but Dempsey has years of experience in Europe already. At this point, it's probably better he has regular playing time rather than riding the bench as a role player at Tottenham. It sounds like Everton was interested too, but I'm guessing Seattle came up with more money.
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    Re: 2013 MLS Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    Get back to me when the Italians stop calling it Calcio. We didn't invent the term "soccer," the English did. It's just the name that stuck here. We still play the same game by the same rules on the field. The whole notion that the US game is inferior because of the name was started by snobs in England who seem to be offended that we have another popular sport that goes by the name of football.
    Deep Breaths mate!

    Our main sport AFL is called football, hasn't stopped anyone here refering to it as football as well.

    Calcio is just the Italian word for football ie. giochi a calcio? Do you play football? (Mind you my Italian is putrid )

    Either way non of it changes the fact is the league is improving and most importantly you have the fans, if you have the fans and some good administration the game will grow.
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    Re: 2013 MLS Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by BuckeyeRed27 View Post
    Almost every player on the USMNT right now has played or does play in the MLS. The talent level is there and is improving. You can play in the MLS and be an elite international player. Dempsey will be fine because he is a super talented player who is going to score a whole bunch of goals between now and Brazil.

    I think most people who are concerned about Dempsey losing his skills coming to MLS, don't watch very much MLS.
    MLS is improving, but the overwhelming majority of the players are playing there because their talent level dictates it. I'd question how many truly "elite" players are in MLS.

    I'm sure Dempsey will be fine. I suspect most of the disappointment comes from American fans liking to see USMNT players in the major European leagues -- I think it's probably akin to the pride Japanese or South Korean baseball fans have when they see members of their country making it in MLB.

    I think the legitimate question to ask is less about his skills eroding and more about where Dempsey's desire level is right now that he willingly walked backward to an inferior league instead of competing for a starting role someplace better?
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    Re: 2013 MLS Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Australian Red View Post
    Deep Breaths mate!

    Our main sport AFL is called football, hasn't stopped anyone here refering to it as football as well.

    Calcio is just the Italian word for football ie. giochi a calcio? Do you play football? (Mind you my Italian is putrid )

    Either way non of it changes the fact is the league is improving and most importantly you have the fans, if you have the fans and some good administration the game will grow.
    Actually, the Italians call it Calcio not because it means "football" but because they've tried to lay claims to having invented the sport themselves. Calcio originally referred to a game dating from the Renaissance where teams or even entire villages would try to get a ball over a goal using feet or hands (which sounds more akin to rugby). When British expats brought FA rules football to Italy in the latter half of the 1800s, the Italians called it "football" and their federation was called the Federazione Italiana Football. It wasn't until around 1910 or so, when Italian nationalism was picking up steam, when the Italians changed to calling FA rules football "calcio" and changed the name of the FIF to Federazione Italiana Giuoco Calcio.

    If it's any consolation, while we may call it Major League Soccer, a number of teams refer to themselves as Football Clubs. And at least we never tried to claim we invented the sport.
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    Re: 2013 MLS Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    MLS is improving, but the overwhelming majority of the players are playing there because their talent level dictates it. I'd question how many truly "elite" players are in MLS.
    You can ask that about any league that isn't one of the big 4 European leagues. Look at the World Cup rosters for the Dutch, French, Argentinians, and Brazilians and you'll find most of their "elite" players don't play in their domestic leagues, either.
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  17. #88
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    Re: 2013 MLS Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    You can ask that about any league that isn't one of the big 4 European leagues. Look at the World Cup rosters for the Dutch, French, Argentinians, and Brazilians and you'll find most of their "elite" players don't play in their domestic leagues, either.
    When you watch the USMNT play without the likes of their top International players you see a lot of sloppy play. You see a lot of poor first touches. You see a lot of poor ball movement. You see a lot of Tim Howard yelling at the defenders (not like he ever stops). When you insert a guy like Michael Bradley into the middle the play gets much better. He does a good job of settling down the middle of the field for the team.

    If you look the French or Argentinians or Brazilians they don't lack the technical skills that many US players lack. The Brazilian league may not be up to snuff with the top European Leagues, but their style is still technically great. The American style of youth soccer doesn't lend to that level of technicality. I am not knocking the MLS but just saying as a fan of US soccer, I want as many players possible playing in the top European leagues.

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    Re: 2013 MLS Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    The American style of youth soccer doesn't lend to that level of technicality.
    Very, very true. England is having the same problem. Youth soccer in both countries in coach-centric. It leads to technical deficiencies and a lack of creativity. Early on I wish we would just toss the ball out and say "there's the goal." The only way to develop dribbling and passing skills is by dribbling and passing.

  19. #90
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    Re: 2013 MLS Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by reds1869 View Post
    Very, very true. England is having the same problem. Youth soccer in both countries in coach-centric. It leads to technical deficiencies and a lack of creativity. Early on I wish we would just toss the ball out and say "there's the goal." The only way to develop dribbling and passing skills is by dribbling and passing.
    I think it depends on where you live. I've seen some youth programs where they're implementing more of a program based on Dutch youth programs. I've also seen coach training programs to instruct coaches on how to run practices for different age groups. There's more of an emphasis on footskills than when I was a kid. Of course a lot of these programs aren't going to bear fruit for 5-10 years when today's kids get older. But my son at 7 already has a better understanding of the game than I had at 10 or 11. My concern is more that there is a lot of focus on travel teams and expensive camps at the older ages, which price some parents out of the game and burn kids out with too many games. I'd like to see more growth from academy teams run by pro teams and universities that offer kids the benefit of travel soccer instruction without the high cost associated with it. If a kid is talented, he or she should have the opportunity to play against better competition without needing the parents to shell out $1, 500 a season.

    I'd also add that just throwing a ball out there and letting them play with no guidance is a recipe for disaster. It tends to end up as a scrum with all the kids bunched up in one area of the field and none of them learn much. Better is to have them play 1x1, 2x2, 3x3 to start so they can learn how to beat 1 person on the dribble or learn about passing into space. More than that too soon results in kids getting mobbed by 6 or 7 kids when they get the ball. It's not pretty.
    Last edited by Yachtzee; 08-08-2013 at 05:25 PM.
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