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Thread: Chapman

  1. #136
    always ask questions bigredmechanism's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by coachpipe View Post
    Hmm..Well if they do that would it be a possibility to have a 6 man rotation with Leake and Chapman but at the same time not take starts away from Cueto, Latos, Bailey and Arroyo.
    Maybe, but having a 6 man rotation will subtract 1 arm from the bullpen. In the event that one of our starters can't get out of the first inning, we'd be even more behind the eight ball in that game than with a 5 man rotation.

    Plus, I would be totally against a 6 man rotation just on the fact that our starters have a routine with 4 days in between starts. Adding an extra day could have detrimental effects.
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  3. #137
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    They don't really need a full 6-man rotation, they just need to give him the traditional fifth-starter treatment. Skip his turn now and then when an off-day keeps the rest of the starters on schedule, give Leake and Lecure a spot start once a month, etc. That would bring Chapman in at 28-30 starts instead of 35-36. That should be sufficient, I'd think.
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  4. #138
    always ask questions bigredmechanism's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by IslandRed View Post
    They don't really need a full 6-man rotation, they just need to give him the traditional fifth-starter treatment. Skip his turn now and then when an off-day keeps the rest of the starters on schedule, give Leake and Lecure a spot start once a month, etc. That would bring Chapman in at 28-30 starts instead of 35-36. That should be sufficient, I'd think.
    I guess that could work, but the main thing would be (assuming he succeeds as a starter) having him able to start in the postseason. Best case scenario, they could use him for 20 innings in October.

    I have a ton of faith in Jocketty and Price, but I'm always timid with these types of things. I think the pessimism is a direct product of the teams that I root for: no championships in 3 different sports since the 1990 Reds team. It's easy to always expect everything to blow up in your face in the most heartbreaking way.
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  5. #139
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    Re: Chapman

    Reading some of these quotes from Dusty this offseason makes me think it was Castellini's decision to bring Dusty back and not Walt's. Those two don't seem to see eye to eye on a few things. What a huge waste of talent it will be if Chapman isn't given a fair opportunity to be a starting pitcher.
    I miss Adam Dunn.

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  7. #140
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by TRF View Post
    No, he's never actually been good. He's got no out pitch, he gives up a ton of hits. I cringe everytime he pitches. Put it this way, I'd rather see Sam LeCure start over Mike Leake. at least LeCure can get a K.
    As far as back-end rotation guys, most teams would kill to have a Mike Leake pitching for them. Not having an out pitch with the ability to induce grounders and avoid walks is a virtue for a back-end pitcher. It just means he's not a top-of-the-rotation guy.
    Last edited by Brutus; 03-15-2013 at 12:34 PM.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  8. #141
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    Re: Chapman

    On average, how many starts does a team have to use a 6th starter in a given season? And shouldn't that be factored into the equation of moving Chapman to the rotation? The discussion shouldn't just be Chapman vs. Leake as the #5, but also Leake vs. whomever as the #6 if/when someone goes down.

  9. #142
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    Re: Chapman

    Here's really what the question has become, at least to me:

    What's the break point for Chapman to stay in the rotation?

    Obviously, if he's kicking down the door and looking like what everyone posting here (except Mike Thierry :P) wants him to look like, then he stays. Obviously, if he can't get through the lineup more than once, he goes back to the bullpen. But what if he is sitting with something like a 3.80-4.10 ERA and looks relatively average-ish? He would be a small upgrade over Leake or Corcino or Cingrani at that point, or he could move to the bullpen and be the Chapman of old.

    What's the break point for Chapman?
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  10. #143
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Plus Plus View Post
    Here's really what the question has become, at least to me:

    What's the break point for Chapman to stay in the rotation?

    Obviously, if he's kicking down the door and looking like what everyone posting here (except Mike Thierry :P) wants him to look like, then he stays. Obviously, if he can't get through the lineup more than once, he goes back to the bullpen. But what if he is sitting with something like a 3.80-4.10 ERA and looks relatively average-ish? He would be a small upgrade over Leake or Corcino or Cingrani at that point, or he could move to the bullpen and be the Chapman of old.

    What's the break point for Chapman?
    I would hope in that scenario they invest on the possibility of future improvement. It's not like the guy is going to necessarily be gangbusters the first season he starts. But if he's sitting between 3.80 and 4.10, I think you've got to leave him in there. He's succeeded, and he might get even better.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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  12. #144
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Reading some of these quotes from Dusty this offseason makes me think it was Castellini's decision to bring Dusty back and not Walt's. Those two don't seem to see eye to eye on a few things. What a huge waste of talent it will be if Chapman isn't given a fair opportunity to be a starting pitcher.
    I have been saying that for years. That Walt didn't want Dusty in the first place, or the second place or the third place, but that Castellini did.

  13. #145
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I have been saying that for years. That Walt didn't want Dusty in the first place, or the second place or the third place, but that Castellini did.
    And yet they have won two division titles in that time, thus it's hardly a adverse relationship. Likely more pumped up as being adverse from the peanut gallery than from those working in the environment.

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  15. #146
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    And yet they have won two division titles in that time, thus it's hardly a adverse relationship. Likely more pumped up as being adverse from the peanut gallery than from those working in the environment.
    I am sure they get along well enough, because they have to, but it is hardly a secret that Jocketty was against Baker being the manager.

  16. #147
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by coachpipe View Post
    It seems as though not a single so called "baseball person" likes the move to starter at all
    Last I checked Brian Price and Walt Jocketty are baseball people.

    Paul Daugherty and David Schoenfield think it's the right move.

    http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...roldis-Chapman
    http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/po...n-should-start

    It goes on and on, and really don't feel like going through every article written on the subject.

    I would also add in an ESPN poll, people voted 57-43 that it is the right move without even seeing him make 1 start. People against this are actually in the minority. I'm thinking you are reading what you want to read.

    If you don't believe that, just the simple fact that every closer in the game was either a former starter that faltered or couldn't cut it as a starter earlier in their career in the minors. It's pretty simple, a starter is much more valuable than any bullpen pitcher and everyone in baseball knows it. The only reason you ever put a guy in the bullpen is because he is not good enough to start. The Reds need to find out if that is true. Chapman's ability to start is a different debate, yet the move itself is the right move. You need to find out if he can start or not, even if he fails. The wrong move was putting him in the bullpen in 2011. That should have never happened.

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  18. #148
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Plus Plus View Post
    Here's really what the question has become, at least to me:

    What's the break point for Chapman to stay in the rotation?

    Obviously, if he's kicking down the door and looking like what everyone posting here (except Mike Thierry :P) wants him to look like, then he stays. Obviously, if he can't get through the lineup more than once, he goes back to the bullpen. But what if he is sitting with something like a 3.80-4.10 ERA and looks relatively average-ish? He would be a small upgrade over Leake or Corcino or Cingrani at that point, or he could move to the bullpen and be the Chapman of old.

    What's the break point for Chapman?
    It would be way more complex than just ERA. It's just way too complex a question. Is the ERA bad because he bagan to wear down? Was he getting hit early or late? Was his 3rd pitch really poor? Were teams simply hitting at a high BABIP? Did he get a minor injury that affected his performance?

    The list goes on and on. Just way too much to draw a line in the sand and say "this is the point." The only thing I can say is if he stinks out loud (like I mentioned before), then his value as a bullpen pitcher takes over. Yet being anywhere from 3.8 to 4.8, you need to understand the circumstances.

  19. #149
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    Reading some of these quotes from Dusty this offseason makes me think it was Castellini's decision to bring Dusty back and not Walt's. Those two don't seem to see eye to eye on a few things. What a huge waste of talent it will be if Chapman isn't given a fair opportunity to be a starting pitcher.
    Yep. I've gotten that vibe more than once.

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    And yet they have won two division titles in that time, thus it's hardly a adverse relationship. Likely more pumped up as being adverse from the peanut gallery than from those working in the environment.
    As they say, chemistry is a 3 game winning streak. Winning cures a lot of ills.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  20. #150
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    It will be an interesting story as the season unfolds. I can honestly say I have no idea what will happen. What is interesting is that Price has been very closed mouth about the plan. I think they want flexibility without Strasberg-like expectations.

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