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Thread: Chapman

  1. #256
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by puca View Post
    The problem with relying on a great bullpen is that you need to be tied or ahead late in the game for it to matter. During the Reds 'meltdown' last year Aroldis was a relative non factor - pitching 1 high leverage inning the entire series.

    Too bad Chapman couldn't have pitched multiple innings in game 3, or when outcome was in doubt in game 4 or 5.
    If the offense sleep walks through key hitting situations it doesn't matter who is pitching. So many people are saying that AC didn't get to throw in key situations but fail to mention that the pitiful display of hitting in the clutch that would have given him that chance.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

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  3. #257
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    Re: Chapman

    Walt Jocketty's quote on Chapman. I wish he had included Dusty Baker in the quote too.

    GOODYEAR, Ariz. -- By Sunday afternoon, Reds general manager Walt Jocketty had heard all about pitcher Aroldis Chapman's public wishes to remain as the team's closer. Jocketty did not want to discuss the issue in depth.

    It's not a lock that Chapman will get what he wants, however.

    "It would certainly be considered, but we don't let every player tell us how they want to be used," Jocketty told MLB.com.
    http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/...k_cin&c_id=cin
    I miss Adam Dunn.

  4. #258
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    If the offense sleep walks through key hitting situations it doesn't matter who is pitching. So many people are saying that AC didn't get to throw in key situations but fail to mention that the pitiful display of hitting in the clutch that would have given him that chance.
    True, but until you give up a run you cannot lose. Runs are often hard to come by in the playoffs - that is the nature of the beast. The fact of the matter is the starters really didn't give the team a chance in games 4 or 5.

  5. #259
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by puca View Post
    I recall Walt saying last May or June how difficult it was for a pitcher to make the switch from the pen to the rotation mid-season. If Chapman starts in the pen, I'm guessing he stays in the pen.
    He actually said that "at some point" it becomes more difficult to switch from reliever to starter. Remember, Chapaman started as a starter, switched to the pen (not the closer) on opening day, because Bray was hurt, and was going to go back to starting when Bray was healthy. Obviously, that plan didn't work out, but that was the original plan last season.
    Last edited by JayStubbs; 03-18-2013 at 01:41 PM.

  6. #260
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    The Reds are crazy to stop at "just fine" with a talent like Chapman. That's the frustrating part.

    I don't know whether how much Cordero made is relevant, especially considering how much the "closer" position is overvalued anyway. Most people thought that was a nutty contract at the time it was signed.
    I agree that it's worth trying Chapman as a starter. I think if they do, he will be mediocre this year.. it will be a learning year for him. The payoff would likely be in 2014 or 2015.

    That said.. if Chapman stays in the pen, and ends up having a career like Billy Wagner, that would not be tragic, IMO.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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  7. #261
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by puca View Post
    True, but until you give up a run you cannot lose. Runs are often hard to come by in the playoffs - that is the nature of the beast. The fact of the matter is the starters really didn't give the team a chance in games 4 or 5.
    Wasn't the tying run on base or at the plate each of the last 4 and 1/2 innings or something along those lines in game 5?
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

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  8. #262
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Yes, I agree. He and Kimbrel put up two of the best closer seasons statistically. It's just that Chapman has so much greater potential value that I feel the Reds are wasting if they leave him as an unexplored option in the pen. It is just unbelievably shortsighted and frustrating -- and so much so, that I think they'd be closer to getting SOME part of that value if they traded him. I'm sure other teams see it as well.
    I hear ya man. I'm kinda on the fence on this one. I love the idea of Chapman being there at the end of a game. He was almost automatic. Then I think, man what if he could do that as a starter. I just wonder if he could do it for more than a couple months. You never know if you don't try tho, also if you try it and it fails you kinda waste that time. Glad I'm not in charge of this one!!!

  9. #263
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    Wasn't the tying run on base or at the plate each of the last 4 and 1/2 innings or something along those lines in game 5?
    The starters gave up 5 and 6 runs in the last two games of that series. As far as I'm concerned whether or not the offense 'could have' dug the Reds out of those holes is secondary.

  10. #264
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by dubc47834 View Post
    I hear ya man. I'm kinda on the fence on this one. I love the idea of Chapman being there at the end of a game. He was almost automatic. Then I think, man what if he could do that as a starter. I just wonder if he could do it for more than a couple months. You never know if you don't try tho, also if you try it and it fails you kinda waste that time. Glad I'm not in charge of this one!!!
    Yet his save percentage was middle of the pack. He blew 5 saves in 43 chances (4 in 42 after becoming closer). His overall numbers were staggering, but he was not what I would call automatic.

    I'm torn on the decision myself. I always wanted to see what Chapman could become as a starter. Depending on the match up, having a dominant lefty in the rotation could easily be the difference between wining an losing a playoff series. Of course so could having a strong bullpen and we know he is a force there. So I will leave it up to the experts and have faith that their decision will be in the best interests of all involved.

  11. #265
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by puca View Post
    Yet his save percentage was middle of the pack. He blew 5 saves in 43 chances (4 in 42 after becoming closer). His overall numbers were staggering, but he was not what I would call automatic.

    I'm torn on the decision myself. I always wanted to see what Chapman could become as a starter. Depending on the match up, having a dominant lefty in the rotation could easily be the difference between wining an losing a playoff series. Of course so could having a strong bullpen and we know he is a force there. So I will leave it up to the experts and have faith that their decision will be in the best interests of all involved.
    That's looking at the whole and not really accurate. He had a hiccup as the closer when the Reds started interleague play. could have been a bit of a dead arm period for him but prior to that, and after he was pretty automatic.

    That said, I want him to start. I think once he adjusts, he can be Justin Verlander, And I loves me some Verlander.
    Suck it up cupcake.

  12. #266
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    Chapman as a starter may not work, but do you want to be saying "what if" years down the road? He may think he wants to be in the pen now, but does he want to be saying that when he's 37 and broke down? I think they owe it to the franchise and to Chapman himself to try it. If it goes bad you have a spot ready for him next year, and yes, I think you give it the whole season no matter what unless it's a complete disaster. Don't move him after 2 bad starts in May.

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  14. #267
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    @Kc61 - I actually didn't mean to accuse you of being short-sighted or frustrating -- that comment was directed at the decision makers and not at any RZ individual poster.

    FWIW, I agree -- it has been a long time for those of us who sat through the Lost Decade. I get that. And that's why I want to make sure the team maximizes the resources they have. IMO, that means giving Chapman a chance to start.
    Last edited by RedEye; 03-18-2013 at 05:56 PM.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  15. #268
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    I actually didn't mean to accuse you of being short-sighted or frustrating -- that comment was directed at the decision makers and not at any RZ individual poster.
    I know, not personal, no offense taken.

    But look, there are many different kinds of fans with different perspectives.

    Me, I appreciate the long term thinking that got the Reds this far. But enough is enough. I want a serious run for a World Series now.

    I look at Chappy as a starter as a longer term proposition. I fear 2013 becomes a developmental year for him. Willing to endure it if the Reds are very confident he will be an Ace. But if they aren't sure, then let's keep the powerhouse pen, include Hoover, Brox, Marshall, Lecure and Aroldis.

    This is not a no brainer and I defer to Walt and his guys. Some of the posts on here (not yours) make it sound obvious and I strongly believe it is not.

    I won't get into the reasons why Chappy as a reliever might be a better course, but there are a lot of pros and cons both ways.
    Last edited by Kc61; 03-18-2013 at 06:18 PM.

  16. #269
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by dubc47834 View Post
    If Chapman starts the season as the closer he will not go to the rotation....barring injury.
    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    How do you know this?
    Price was said to have made a statement to that effect in the Jim Bowden's ESPN Insider column a couple of weeks ago.
    /r/reds

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  18. #270
    Member Mitri's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Jeff Sullivan/Fangraphs take:

    http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...pman-solution/

    It seems so simple to me. People want to know if Chapman can start, and the longer he remains in the bullpen, the more difficult it would be to stretch him out. The Reds could start Chapman on a trial basis, and then they could re-evaluate things in some weeks, since they donít have to make long-term commitments with these things. The Chapman situation would be unlikely to sink the Redsí season, since Broxton can close and starter Chapman probably wouldnít be a disaster. Whatever preference Chapman might have for closing could reverse if he started and pitched well for six or seven or eight innings at a time.

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