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Thread: Chapman

  1. #316
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by coachpipe View Post
    The guy likes and is more comfortable in the closers role. Its as simple as that yet people are never going to let it go
    Of course he's comfortable in the closer's role -- doing new things is scary.

    They told Choo to man up and play CF for the good of the team, why is Chapman immune from the same treatment?
    Championships Matter.
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  4. #317
    Member Nasty_Boy's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    This is such a waste! The best arm in the world is only going to throw 70 innings. This makes the Broxton signing look incredibly silly too.
    I know a lot of people are talking about his on-base percentage (.308 in 2008), but I like to think more in terms of him his in-scoring position percentage. - Our Beloved Manager

  5. #318
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    If this is true I'll be really, really disappointed. It's such short sighted thinking with Dusty as the spokesman.

    The Reds had a chance to become one of the truly elite teams. Instead, Walt caved. What other reason is there?

    I'll have to make sure to check in so I don't miss the next time people want to rate Walt. I'm not as big a fan as Bob C unfortunately.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  6. #319
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    Re: Chapman

    I think it we a done deal before spring training that Chapman wild start the season in the pen, but that he would move to the rotation later, in order to save his innings.. Without any actual reports, that may be all that these "reports" are going on, and they are just speculating that he will be the closer.

    I'm waiting for an actual report before jumping to conclusions.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  7. #320
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Not defending of rejecting the move, but perhaps Chapman's opinion is more heavily weighted than other players because unlike other players, there's no history they can go to to see how many innings he's actually thrown, etc. than what they have since he came to the States. The only one who really knows is himself.

    There's a lot of unknown about Chapman's work in Cuba.

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  9. #321
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt700wlw View Post
    Not defending of rejecting the move, but perhaps Chapman's opinion is more heavily weighted than other players because unlike other players, there's no history they can go to to see how many innings he's actually thrown, etc.

    There's a lot of unknown about Chapman's work in Cuba.
    He's an employee. His opinion and desire to pitch in a less strenuous role should mean less than 0.
    Championships Matter.
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  10. #322
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Or Frazier. Hard to argue with the Reds' success in developing players over the last half decade, but there are certain guys that are getting jerked around to a ridiculous extent:

    Chapman, Frazier, Alonso, Mesoraco.

    Crazy that these guys were all at one time or another THE top prospect in the organization, and the Reds just couldn't decide what to do with them. I'm disappointed that Chapman won't be starting (and we're now paying our two setup men over $10MM/year for the next three years) but I guess I'll just defer to the regime. I hope this was Walt's decision and not Dusty's...
    Did you actually forget Bailey?

    I'm honestly starting to wonder about the long-term planning of the Reds. Do they not understand the concept?
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  11. #323
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    If they're going to move him to the pen, it would be nice if they'd at least maximize his value there. Let Broxton "close". Let Chapman be the fireman. Let him go more than one inning on occasion. Bring him to face the middle of the lineup or to get other guys out of jams. Just put him back as "closer" is disappointing.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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  13. #324
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    If they're going to move him to the pen, it would be nice if they'd at least maximize his value there. Let Broxton "close". Let Chapman be the fireman. Let him go more than one inning on occasion. Bring him to face the middle of the lineup or to get other guys out of jams. Just put him back as "closer" is disappointing.
    You forgot -- we have to ASK Aroldis if he likes that role before we make any decisions.
    Championships Matter.
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  15. #325
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    What a waste of talent.

    If the Reds aren't going to make Chapman a starter, they need to maximize his value and trade him right now to a team that sees him in the rotation.
    Presumably if the Reds thought that starting was the best use of his talent than he would be in the rotation (and hence trading him as an advertised starter would not maximzie his trade value).

    Is it possible that the Reds scouts have continued to scout and review Chap's progress as a starter, and discuss with Chapman how he is enjoying being a starter, and with all of that information, the reviews came back that he doesn't like starting, he scouts less effective as a starter, and perhaps there is an enhanced injury risk as a starter?

    We know that the Reds have tried to push him as a starter. Every spring training that's where his role has started, even after last year's dominance as a reliever, and yet, every year he ends up a reliever at some point.

    I'm just saying, there might be more than what meets the eye. The Reds, in a perfect world, obviously prefer him, and see the value in him being a starter than a reliever, otherwise they wouldn't keep trying to push him as a starter. But yet, it hasn't worked out in their's, or Chapman's eyes (for currently unknown reasons to us). There is likely some pretty fair rationale behind their reasonings, we just don't know it yet.

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  17. #326
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    If they're going to move him to the pen, it would be nice if they'd at least maximize his value there. Let Broxton "close". Let Chapman be the fireman. Let him go more than one inning on occasion. Bring him to face the middle of the lineup or to get other guys out of jams. Just put him back as "closer" is disappointing.
    If thy're going to keep him in the bullpen let Chapman pitch multiple innings as much as he can. Why they would even consider limiting an arm like that to 70+ innings is beyond me.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  18. #327
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Benihana View Post
    Or Frazier. Hard to argue with the Reds' success in developing players over the last half decade, but there are certain guys that are getting jerked around to a ridiculous extent:

    Chapman, Frazier, Alonso, Mesoraco.

    Crazy that these guys were all at one time or another THE top prospect in the organization, and the Reds just couldn't decide what to do with them. I'm disappointed that Chapman won't be starting (and we're now paying our two setup men over $10MM/year for the next three years) but I guess I'll just defer to the regime. I hope this was Walt's decision and not Dusty's...
    On Chapman, I'm comfortable in guessing Walt knew what Dusty's preferences (and probably Chapman's preferences) were this winter, but he went with the rotation plan anyway. So there are likely reasons beyond that involved here. I'll be interested to hear what they say about it.

    I'll just disagree on the other guys being "jerked around" but in the interests of thread scope I'll let it go.
    Not all who wander are lost

  19. #328
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    Presumably if the Reds thought that starting was the best use of his talent than he would be in the rotation (and hence trading him as an advertised starter would not maximzie his trade value).

    Is it possible that the Reds scouts have continued to scout and review Chap's progress as a starter, and discuss with Chapman how he is enjoying being a starter, and with all of that information, the reviews came back that he doesn't like starting, he scouts less effective as a starter, and perhaps there is an enhanced injury risk as a starter?

    We know that the Reds have tried to push him as a starter. Every spring training that's where his role has started, even after last year's dominance as a reliever, and yet, every year he ends up a reliever at some point.

    I'm just saying, there might be more than what meets the eye. The Reds, in a perfect world, obviously prefer him, and see the value in him being a starter than a reliever, otherwise they wouldn't keep trying to push him as a starter. But yet, it hasn't worked out in their's, or Chapman's eyes (for currently unknown reasons to us). There is likely some pretty fair rationale behind their reasonings, we just don't know it yet.
    Again, why is Aroldis's opinion being considered here? What human being wouldn't ask to stay in a role where he does one thing (throw fastballs) for one inning (the 9th) every couple of days v. actually having to prepare to start every fifth day, developing his secondary offerings, and grow as a pitcher?

    It's a role change. It's going to be uncomfortable, it's going to take time, and it's going to take some getting used to.

    That his opinion is even being considered is mind-boggling to me.
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

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  21. #329
    ZCTRMTP!!!!! texasdave's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    I'm just saying, there might be more than what meets the eye. The Reds, in a perfect world, obviously prefer him, and see the value in him being a starter than a reliever, otherwise they wouldn't keep trying to push him as a starter. But yet, it hasn't worked out in their's, or Chapman's eyes (for currently unknown reasons to us). There is likely some pretty fair rationale behind their reasonings, we just don't know it yet.
    Maybe I am misremembering, but I thought he was a lock for the rotation last spring until Madson and Masset went down.
    A summer watching a bad Reds' team, is still a pretty good summer.

  22. #330
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    If thy're going to keep him in the bullpen let Chapman pitch multiple innings as much as he can.
    These ideas are always good ideas on paper.

    But in actuality, I'm not sure it makes sense to use a guy like that for multiple innings multiple times a week. To me, that seems like his style in that role would lead to enhanced injury chances. There are few relievers of that calibre used in that capacity, it's generally more Sean Marshall type of guys.

    Beyond using him as a starter, there's not a lot else they can do to use Chapman differently. The Reds often brough Chaps in a batter or two early last season when a crucial moment occured and the situation dictated it. But generally, considering the Reds depth of skill in the bullpen will allow them to use their relievers when a match-up makes sense. Not like Sean Marshall or Broxton can't pitch in leverage situations.


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