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Thread: Chapman

  1. #451
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    For me, this decision is like debating whether to cook a prime 30 day aged, rib eye as a steak or to slice it up and use it to make a Philly cheesesteak sandwich. It's rather eat a great steak than a great cheesesteak, but either way, I'm having a great meal. It's not like making Chapman the closer is like grounding up the rib eye into meatloaf.
    To me, philly cheesesteak is just as bad as meatloaf -- if not worse. Heck, all that freaking cheese doesn't even let you taste the meat! It's delicious, but in an instant-gratification-regret-eating-it-thirty-minutes-later kind of way. A rib eye steak with some Bordeaux, OTOH, is one of life's sublime experiences. :-)
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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  3. #452
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    They are seeing 1000% more of Chapman than we are. They are aware of his talents, the value of starting pitching, etc. If they make a decision that he is a reliever, there is probably a reason. And it likely isn't because Dusty stormed into Bob's office and held his breath.
    Yeah, but they also subscribe to having players do it when it counts. Otherwise, they wouldn't be doing their jobs. The idea of performance in real games being important shouldn't be controversial.
    Last edited by RedEye; 03-21-2013 at 02:11 PM.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  4. #453
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN INDY View Post
    Some look at your reasons with just as much disappointment.
    Was that directed at me?
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  5. #454
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Yep. It's completely possible that they come to that decision. So long as they took a long, hard look at moving him up the depth chart, I can be at peace with what Jocketty & Price (and Dusty) decide is best.
    I just hope that when they do make the decision, they spell out their reasons in a more articulate way than "we just thought this was best." That would let me be more at peace.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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  7. #455
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I don't see any reason why we would think otherwise.
    Because they never tried it in actual games.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  8. #456
    Vavasor TRF's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    They are seeing 1000% more of Chapman than we are. They are aware of his talents, the value of starting pitching, etc. If they make a decision that he is a reliever, there is probably a reason. And it likely isn't because Dusty stormed into Bob's office and held his breath.
    please.

    They saw 1000% more of Drew Stubbs and it took three years to decide to trade him.

    They see more of every player. At some point we as fans have to recognize the Reds kinda suck at developing. Bailey, Frazier and Stubbs are prime examples.

    This is a very disappointing decision, and what is worse to me is, 30 starts by Mike Leake.

    fail.
    Suck it up cupcake.

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    redsfandan (03-21-2013)

  10. #457
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    I'm suggesting that the Reds winning this year is more crucial than Aroldis' professiona development, and that using him in the way they currently are might be the best course of action for the upcoming season.

    Ok but a dominant starter is more valuable than a dominant closer. Wouldn't a great starter help the Reds win more games than a great closer?

    Also why couldn't Chapman move back to the bullpen later in the season if it doesn't work out?

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  12. #458
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    When Chapman was starting in Louisville, 93 MPH was his LOW point in most games. He was 93-96. Even then, his slider, when he could avoid bouncing it, was a pretty good pitch. Is it as good when it won't be with a 100 MPH FB? Of course not. But that doesn't mean it isn't going to be a good pitch still.
    And this summarizes the issue well. Will his pitches be "good" or excellent as a starter.

    Most of the posters assume Chapman will be excellent. Frankly, I've seen little substance behind this conclusion.

    Yes, he has a great arm. But there are many other factors that make up a great starting pitching. Durability and focus over an extended outing; multiple very effective pitches; ability to have command over extended outing; ability to remain sharp pitching every fifth day. And probably others I've never heard of.

    The reason I'm ambivalent is that I think it requires a professional's expertise to look closely at the pitcher and make a conclusion. Just because Chapman has a great arm doesn't mean the right move is to take him away from closing and into the rotation.

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  14. #459
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Trajinous View Post
    Ok but a dominant starter is more valuable than a dominant closer. Wouldn't a great starter help the Reds win more games than a great closer?

    Also why couldn't Chapman move back to the bullpen later in the season if it doesn't work out?
    Why is it assumed to everyone that Chapman will be a dominant starter?

    We don't know if he can do that right now. Maybe Chaps flames out as a starter and it takes the Reds 15 pitiful games to realize that, and games are being blown late. A decision like that could cost the Reds numerous games if Chapman fails, and possibly a playoff spot.

    I'm just saying, it shouldn't be assumed what Chapman is as a starter until he is what he is (whatever that means).

    I will say again, perfect world, Chapman is one of my 5 starters, and he is a good one. But I recognize that we don't currently live in that world, and Chapman's pedigree as a starter should be discounted as such.

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  16. #460
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    Re: Chapman

    The first requirement to be great is to dare to be.

    Rem
    "For Reds fans, by Reds fans" Learn it, love it, live it.

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    TRF (03-21-2013)

  18. #461
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    And this summarizes the issue well. Will his pitches be "good" or excellent as a starter.

    Most of the posters assume Chapman will be excellent. Frankly, I've seen little substance behind this conclusion.

    Yes, he has a great arm. But there are many other factors that make up a great starting pitching. Durability and focus over an extended outing; multiple very effective pitches; ability to have command over extended outing; ability to remain sharp pitching every fifth day. And probably others I've never heard of.

    The reason I'm ambivalent is that I think it requires a professional's expertise to look closely at the pitcher and make a conclusion. Just because Chapman has a great arm doesn't mean the right move is to take him away from closing and into the rotation.
    Agree with everything here. Plus, I don't really believe his heart was in it to begin with.

    In his mind, he was always closing, people.


  19. #462
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    There are many people, directly involved in the game with many more credentials than most everyone on this message board, who don't find Chapman as a starter as the best course of action for the Reds. Nothing wrong with an opinion but to totally dismiss either side of this argument is pretty stupid. There is no lockdown, right or wrong answer here.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

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  21. #463
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN INDY View Post
    Nothing wrong with an opinion but to totally dismiss either side of this argument is pretty stupid. There is no lockdown, right or wrong answer here.
    Welcome to RedsZone.
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  22. #464
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    Re: Chapman

    I predict the Reds will make Chapman the closer, but Chapman will eventually lose the role due to injury or poor performance and Broxton will be the closer in the playoffs.

    History has shown that flamethrowing closers have very short life expectancies.

  23. #465
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    And this summarizes the issue well. Will his pitches be "good" or excellent as a starter.

    Most of the posters assume Chapman will be excellent. Frankly, I've seen little substance behind this conclusion.

    Yes, he has a great arm. But there are many other factors that make up a great starting pitching. Durability and focus over an extended outing; multiple very effective pitches; ability to have command over extended outing; ability to remain sharp pitching every fifth day. And probably others I've never heard of.

    The reason I'm ambivalent is that I think it requires a professional's expertise to look closely at the pitcher and make a conclusion. Just because Chapman has a great arm doesn't mean the right move is to take him away from closing and into the rotation.
    Even if Chapmans pitches are merely "good" as a starter, a good starter > elite closer.


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