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Thread: Chapman

  1. #481
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Not in terms of what they contribute to winning baseball games it isn't.
    Oh, it most certainly is, whether you like it or not.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

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  3. #482
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Oh, it most certainly is, whether you like it or not.
    How so? Closers are overrated.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    redsfandan (03-21-2013)

  5. #483
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    And I watched the 2001 World Series.

    One example does not a point make.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  6. #484
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    It is one to say a merely good starter is better than an elite closer.
    No.

    A 162 game season consists of 1458 innings. A 200-inning starting pitcher is responsible for 13.7% of the inning's work. A 70-inning closer is responsible for 4.3% of the total innings. It's hard to say that a closer has a similar impact to a club's success based on their participation compared to starters.

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    AtomicDumpling (03-21-2013)

  8. #485
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    History has shown that flamethrowing closers have very short life expectancies.
    While this may be true, the reasons for why their life expectancies may be "short" could be for reasons that don't apply to Aroldis.

  9. #486
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    It's not terrible to experiment. I like to give players a chance.

    Just keep in mind that this may not be the best time in Reds' history to engage in a tryout camp. There is no guarantee the Reds will win anything this season; they won't be handed the NL pennant.

    On a rebuilding team, this is a no-brainer, let Chapman try out as a starter. On a World Series contender, there's a lot to lose. Like numerous games if the experiment doesn't work.

    Worst case scenario - Chapman pitches poorly as a starter. Gets the full chance, several months. Then has trouble re-adjusting to the bullpen in the late season
    .
    So, you're a glass half full guy huh.

    Suggesting that they could lose 'numerous games' as a result is kinda silly imo,
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  10. #487
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Trajinous View Post
    No.

    A 162 game season consists of 1458 innings. A 200-inning starting pitcher is responsible for 13.7% of the inning's work. A 70-inning closer is responsible for 4.3% of the total innings. It's hard to say that a closer has a similar impact to a club's success based on their participation compared to starters.
    You're missing the point. You're assuming same quality of innings pitched.

    I don't think it's ridiculous to assert that Mariano Rivera is more valuable than, say, Homer Bailey.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

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    RANDY IN INDY (03-21-2013)

  12. #488
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    [*]Maybe they don't want to lose games experimenting this year because they feel they have the horses to go far and don't want to screw the pooch?
    I find it hard to believe that Chapman will be worse than Mike Leake. And "Bad Arroyo" screws the pooch pretty regularly too. Not to mention the enigma that is David Bailey.

    [*]Maybe they tried to get the answer over the last 6 weeks and found it?
    Maybe. But not in games that count. His performance certainly hasn't shown anything conclusive statistically and there have been no injuries.

    [*]Maybe they plan on a slower transformation to starter that isn't as aggressive as the average RZ posters idea of what should go down?
    I could get behind that, but he doesn't have THAT long a contract either.

    [*]Maybe they are treating him different than other pitchers because they recognize that he is different than other pitchers?
    Tautologies don't really get us anywhere.

    [*]Maybe they are smarter than they are getting credit for?
    Or maybe they are dumber. We just don't know, do we?

    [*]Maybe they are dumber than a box of rocks and a 90 loss season can only get back the glory of the Bowden/O'Brien era and the brain trust of Bob Boone and Jerry Narron?[/LIST]
    Are you implying that I've said they are dumber than a box of rocks?
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  13. #489
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    You're missing the point. You're assuming same quality of innings pitched.

    I don't think it's ridiculous to assert that Mariano Rivera is more valuable than, say, Homer Bailey.
    Hardly fair to cherry pick the greatest reliever of all time and compare him to a debatably "good" pitcher who used to be terrible.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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    AtomicDumpling (03-21-2013)

  15. #490
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    So, you're a glass half full guy huh.

    Suggesting that they could lose 'numerous games' as a result is kinda silly imo,
    Not at all. What's silly is to project success without a firm basis for it.

    A major league starter usually starts about 30 times in a season, barring injury. If that starter does poorly, he can cause the team to lose numerous games.

    Have you ever turned on the ballgame in the second inning and found the Reds down 4 runs? I have too often to count. I'd like to avoid that while Chapman is undergoing some experiment.

    Again, you think it's silly because you are assuming Chapman will be very good to elite as a starter right out of the chute. If it goes the other way, the Reds could suffer as a team.

    I'd rather avoid that result, unless the pros within the organization are comfortable that the guy is ready to do well as a starter.

  16. #491
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    One example does not a point make.
    Neither does negating a point. Or negating the negation of one. See what I did there?
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  17. #492
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    • Maybe they don't want to lose games experimenting this year because they feel they have the horses to go far and don't want to screw the pooch?
    • Maybe they tried to get the answer over the last 6 weeks and found it?
    • Maybe they plan on a slower transformation to starter that isn't as aggressive as the average RZ posters idea of what should go down?
    • Maybe they are treating him different than other pitchers because they recognize that he is different than other pitchers?
    • Maybe they are smarter than they are getting credit for?
    • Maybe they are dumber than a box of rocks and a 90 loss season can only get back the glory of the Bowden/O'Brien era and the brain trust of Bob Boone and Jerry Narron?
    I remember a time when this kind of post was the norm. You make way too much sense.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

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    jimbo (03-21-2013)

  19. #493
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    You're missing the point. You're assuming same quality of innings pitched.

    I don't think it's ridiculous to assert that Mariano Rivera is more valuable than, say, Homer Bailey.
    Exactly.

    70 high leverage innings can be just as valuable as 200 regular innings. Of course, the way Baker uses a closer, we can't assume the Reds closer will get 70 high leverage innings. That's why I like RMR's idea of using Chapman as the fireman, instead of the closer.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  20. #494
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    One example does not a point make.
    Which was exactly my point, since the OP referred to watching the Reds in 1990.

  21. #495
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Who is doing that?
    In this case, anyone who believes that removing Chapman from the bullpen, inserting him into the rotation is the only choice without acknowledging the risks involved. In previous cases, many different posters.

    One idea that many have failed to learn is that there is often a good reason why a well seasoned, professional FO like this does what they do. And why they are where they are. These guys have been killing it over the past few years and deserve every benefit of the doubt.

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    HeatherC1212 (03-21-2013), RANDY IN INDY (03-21-2013)


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