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Thread: Chapman

  1. #526
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Though Dusty's been the one hammering nails into his head on this one. I generally give him the benefit of the doubt, but he's handled the Chapman situation poorly. Now he can't even answer a simple question about an innings target in a ST game.
    True, he's entrenched himself with his POV and won't waver from it and that's not unusual but also not the best kumbaya moment for a team on the cusp.

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  3. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN INDY View Post
    With guys like Daugherty and Fay asking the questions every day, it probably wouldn't be too hard to imagine getting a little "prickly."
    That, my friend, we agree on. Although Fay tends to be just bumbling while Doc is a great writer -- but often stirs controversy where there really shouldn't be any (like blaming on-field woes on furniture).
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  4. #528
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    Re: Chapman

    If the Reds won a WS with Drew Stubbs in CF last year, I'd have said that if they wanted to win again in 2013, they need to upgrade CF.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

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  6. #529
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Ok, let's just assume that Chapman goes out and gives you 70 innings with a 2.06 ERA (16 earned runs).

    What would he have to provide, ERA wise, in say, 150 innings, to be more valuable than the above line as a reliever?
    Tough question to answer since it would also depend on the performance of the bullpen, starter he'd be replacing, etc.

  7. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Though Dusty's been the one hammering nails into his head on this one. I generally give him the benefit of the doubt, but he's handled the Chapman situation poorly. Now he can't even answer a simple question about an innings target in a ST game.
    Exactly -- I don't understand why Dusty had to go public with his opinion about any of this.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  8. #531
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    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Tough question to answer since it would also depend on the performance of the bullpen, starter he'd be replacing, etc.
    Dave Cameron does a decent job in the post I linked to earlier.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  9. #532
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Exactly -- I don't understand why Dusty had to go public with his opinion about any of this.
    He's gone full Sonny Corleone on this.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

  10. #533
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Nasty_Boy View Post
    This is such a waste! The best arm in the world is only going to throw 70 innings. This makes the Broxton signing look incredibly silly too.
    Disagree. How is signing Broxton silly? He's probably still the best RH arm in the pen. Hoover may surprass him this year (I doubt it, but it's a reasonable possibiliy)..

    Broxton on the roster means that Simon, Logan and Arredondo pitch less high leverage innings. That's a good thing.

    Deep pens help win championships.

    Honestly, I wanted to see Chapman start, but I'm ok with him remaining one of the most dominant closers in the game. I said this earlier.. does anyone think that Billy Wagner's career was a waste? I kind of doubt it.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  11. #534
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    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    I can only speak for myself, but I would say that the Reds made best use of the resources they had at the time. If they won the WS, I'm not sure I would complain about the lineup Winning the WS makes management somewhat immune to second guessing, in that year, IMO.
    I am so sick of this line of argument. Just because a team wins doesn't mean they are beyond reproach. We should all root for an astute Reds front office that strives for more perfection and efficiency no matter what their results on the field.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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  13. #535
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Honestly, I wanted to see Chapman start, but I'm ok with him remaining one of the most dominant closers in the game. I said this earlier.. does anyone think that Billy Wagner's career was a waste? I kind of doubt it.
    I think it's fair to say the Reds are in the position of picking between two good decisions. I lean toward starting him as well (and the team has pretty aggressively walked back the report that he'll be closing), but if he's closing I'm not going to be crestfallen.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

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  15. #536
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    Re: Chapman

    One theory on the report leaking, then being officially denied, and Dusty getting snappy: Dusty was the leak. He keeps trying to sabotage the plan and Jocketty/Price aren't letting him have his way. If so, it's only complicated the Chapman situation and undermined Dusty's position with the club.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

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  17. #537
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    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Deep pens help win championships.
    So does smart roster management. If Chapman is the closer, Walt's overall plan makes less sense. I actually don't think they needed Broxton in either scenario -- I'm not big on overpaying for RP in general.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  18. #538
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    From what he's written before, I would say Doug would agree with this, too. Who wouldn't? He was responding in-kind to a previous post that brought up the example of 1990 as proof positive that closers are more valuable to winning a World Series.
    That was my post about 1990 and you have mischaracterized it.

    Nothing is "proof positive" of anything in baseball. Nor did I say that.

    And top starting pitching IMO is more important than top relief pitching in winning a World Series.

    But that does not mean you take an elite closer and begin an experiment with him as starter when you are about to embark on, hopefully, a championship season.

    And whether Rivera gave up a big hit means absolutely nothing in this discussion. All players fail. But if the value of relievers is doubtful to you, please get a DVD of the 1990 World Series which shows just how valuable they can be.

  19. #539
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    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    One theory on the report leaking, then being officially denied, and Dusty getting snappy: Dusty was the leak. He keeps trying to sabotage the plan and Jocketty/Price aren't letting him have his way. If so, it's only complicated the Chapman situation and undermined Dusty's position with the club.
    Given what we know, it is very hard NOT to see the story this way.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  20. #540
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    That was my post about 1990 and you have mischaracterized it.

    Nothing is "proof positive" of anything in baseball. Nor did I say that.

    And top starting pitching IMO is more important than top relief pitching in winning a World Series.

    But that does not mean you take an elite closer and begin an experiment with him as starter when you are about to embark on, hopefully, a championship season.

    And whether Rivera gave up a big hit means absolutely nothing in this discussion. All players fail. But if the value of relievers is doubtful to you, please get a DVD of the 1990 World Series which shows just how valuable they can be.
    Apologies for mischaracterizing. The point remains, though, that you can make the argument the other way -- that rotation depth and top-end SP talent are the keys to postseason (and regular season) success and that the Reds are nuts not to at least try to add another league average arm to the mix (with the potential for much, much more). Having Chapman at the back of the pen means little in the playoffs when you lose a starter and his replacement is giving up 10 runs in the first inning. But if you lose your ace and can replace him with a guy who can dominate a team for 7 innings, your whole scenario just improves.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013


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