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Thread: Chapman

  1. #601
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post

    Walt is a very pragmatic GM. I doubt this is as simple as whether Chapman will be a good starter. I think this is a complex decision, no matter what the Reds are saying.
    If Walt thinks Chapman will be a good starter, then I don't care about anyone else on the team as far as their role when it comes to playing into how to use Chapman.

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  3. #602
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    I don't know how many times I've read the phrase "There's no guarantee that Chapman will be a dominant starter" in the reasoning of posters (not you). To me, that sounds like, word-for-word, a demand for a guarantee.
    It's actually been the other way around. Many proponents for starter have failed to recognize that the successful transition is not a guarantee. That's what that is in reference too. I actually have not seen one proponent of chapman for relief in this thread. The other side I would characterize as being open to that idea if there was information that suggested to the reds front office that te transition was likely not to succeed. That viewpoint has been consistently misrepresented throughout the thread.

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  5. #603
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Or maybe they are being over rulled by the guy with the check book.
    I thought it was Dusty.

  6. #604
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    It seems that decesion is still pending.

    Price and Walt have been consistent in saying he should be a starter
    And they are paid to know. In fact, Price is the guy specifically paid to know.

    If I were running the circus, Price would be the guy making the call.
    Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

    I'm witchcrafting everybody.

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  8. #605
    It's showtime! RedEye's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    It's actually been the other way around. Many proponents for starter have failed to recognize that the successful transition is not a guarantee. That's what that is in reference too. I actually have not seen one proponent of chapman for relief in this thread. The other side I would characterize as being open to that idea if there was information that suggested to the reds front office that te transition was likely not to succeed. That viewpoint has been consistently misrepresented throughout the thread.
    Sounds like classic polarization of an argument to me. PB, I've read most everything you've written in this thread and you, along with Kc61 and a few others, have espoused a generally nuanced argument about why Chapman might be better off in the pen. I appreciate that. I disagree, but I appreciate it.

    Also, I just want to bring back this point that traderumor and Kc61 made much earlier on, before Doc's (false) report got us all charged up earlier today:

    without Aroldis, is the Reds' rotation really that good? Is it a playoff winning rotation? I think it's a fair question and probably the key issue as the Reds think this through.
    I think the answer is "not so much" or "maybe." The Reds have two starters (Cueto, Latos) who could be top-shelf playoff starters and a third (Bailey) who has flashed the ability in patches. But I say aces like this are the number one asset to have heading to the post-season, and that a team should stop at nothing to find out whether they have one or not.

    Is there a guarantee that Chapman is this kind of starter? No way. But he shows all the signs you look for.
    "Iíll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. Thatís just how I do things.Ē -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

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  10. #606
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    Re: Chapman

    I have to agree with Jeff Brantley either Chapman starts this season or he never starts as a Red.

    If Walt and Price want Chapman starting Walt needs to tell Dusty , he starts period if Dusty doesn't like it I'm sure another manager would have no trouble following orders.

  11. #607
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    And they are paid to know. In fact, Price is the guy specifically paid to know.

    If I were running the circus, Price would be the guy making the call.
    In Price I trust.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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  13. #608
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by indy_dave00 View Post
    I have to agree with Jeff Brantley either Chapman starts this season or he never starts as a Red.

    If Walt and Price want Chapman starting Walt needs to tell Dusty , he starts period if Dusty doesn't like it I'm sure another manager would have no trouble following orders.
    They have told him that. Dusty doesn't seem to care. Jocketty and Price are both on record with wanting Chapman to start.

  14. #609
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    If Walt thinks Chapman will be a good starter, then I don't care about anyone else on the team as far as their role when it comes to playing into how to use Chapman.
    Exactly. Taking a simple situation and adding all sorts of complexities is what got us into this mess in the first place. Bottom line is Aroldis Chapman is a ludicrously talented pitcher never given close to a chance to show what he can do. Ryan Madson's elbow, Bill Bray's groin, or Broxton's K rate is not a valid excuse for that.

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  16. #610
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I thought it was Dusty.
    If Walt wants Chapman to start, I don't think he will be out voted by a guy lower on the food chain.

    Its all speculation, we are never going to know the whole story until one of the principals are out of the team
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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  18. #611
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    They have told him that. Dusty doesn't seem to care. Jocketty and Price are both on record with wanting Chapman to start.
    Do we know this as of right now or is it possible that this spring has changed their position(s)?

  19. #612
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Yep. Insubordination would be where Dusty writes Leake 1 on the lineup card instead of Chapman 1.
    IF Dusty is using the press to try to get what he wants by implying that Chapman WILL be the closer when a final decision HASN'T even been made then I think that could be insubordination.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  20. #613
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by redsfandan View Post
    IF Dusty is using the press to try to get what he wants by implying that Chapman WILL be the closer when a final decision HASN'T even been made then I think that could be insubordination.
    And if Dusty has water boarded Walt until he has agreed to put Aroldis in the bullpen, it would be even worse.

    In other words, that's quite the stretch.

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  22. #614
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by Superdude View Post
    Exactly. Taking a simple situation and adding all sorts of complexities is what got us into this mess in the first place. Bottom line is Aroldis Chapman is a ludicrously talented pitcher never given close to a chance to show what he can do. Ryan Madson's elbow, Bill Bray's groin, or Broxton's K rate is not a valid excuse for that.
    It's only a simple situation if you are Chapman's agent. His only interest is Chapman's career.

    Walt has broader responsibilities.

    And while some might think that Aroldis as a "good starter" may answer all questions, I doubt Walt does.

  23. #615
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    Do we know this as of right now or is it possible that this spring has changed their position(s)?
    In the last week, Bryan Price has publicly stated that he never said he wanted Chapman in the closers role after Hal McCoy reported he did say that.

    Walt Jocketty then said that they will certainly listen to a player about their preferred role, but they don't let players preference decide their roles.


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