Turn Off Ads?
Page 44 of 46 FirstFirst ... 3440414243444546 LastLast
Results 646 to 660 of 684

Thread: Chapman

  1. #646
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,809

    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Why though? They know he throws a slider in at bat #1. They know that he probably isn't throwing it behind in the count and will throw it when ahead in the count or even in the count. If he is tipping the pitch, that is one thing, but if he isn't, then at bat 1 or at bat 15 shouldn't really make a difference assuming the velocity remains the same on the FB and the SL.
    If the premise is that his slider is unrecognizable when used in combo with his fastball you are correct. But I bet major league hitters can pick up on it slightly, especially if he loses 5 mph across the board had he moved to starter. Just my speculation.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #647
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    34,881

    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    If the premise is that his slider is unrecognizable when used in combo with his fastball you are correct. But I bet major league hitters can pick up on it slightly, especially if he loses 5 mph across the board had he moved to starter. Just my speculation.
    If so, they are going to be able to pick it up in at bat 1 just as much as at bat 2 or 3.

  4. #648
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    7,809

    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    If so, they are going to be able to pick it up in at bat 1 just as much as at bat 2 or 3.
    I don't agree with that. You often hear about pitchers attempting getting through the order the first time with only 1 or 2 of their pitches. Then they can break out the full arsenal the second and third time thru. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that, but I guess you disagree with the notion of it.

  5. #649
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    34,881

    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    I don't agree with that. You often hear about pitchers attempting getting through the order the first time with only 1 or 2 of their pitches. Then they can break out the full arsenal the second and third time thru. I'm sure I don't have to tell you that, but I guess you disagree with the notion of it.
    Why wouldn't they be able to pick it up in at bat one, but then be able to in at bats 2 or 3? It isn't as if you are going out and facing Barry Zito and he breaks off a slider (which would be shocking, since he doesn't throw one). You are facing Chapman, a guy you know has one and will throw it.

    We certainly hear about and it does happen, that guys go through the line up first time through with 90% fastballs. I don't know that a guy mixing in his other pitches are going to make it easier to hit them later in the game though, assuming they aren't of lesser quality.

  6. #650
    Member 757690's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Dayton
    Posts
    9,821

    Re: Chapman

    Lefties with a great second pitch have not needed a third pitch. Koufax, Carlton, R. Johnson, Glavine, off the top of my head. I don't know if Chapman's slider is in that class, but it could be.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  7. #651
    Member redsfandan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    3,533

    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Lefties with a great second pitch have not needed a third pitch. Koufax, Carlton, R. Johnson, Glavine, off the top of my head. I don't know if Chapman's slider is in that class, but it could be.
    Well, since he's not going to be a starter anytime soon he can just work on getting ready for the season instead of developing that pitch. And if he doesn't have to work on that pitch, to improve that pitch, we may never know how good it could be.
    "Now that's a real shame when folks be throwin' away a perfectly good white boy like that."

  8. #652
    You're soaking in it! MartyFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    3,350

    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    Grande brazo, poquito seso

    Tal vez un cerebro pequeño, pero para cubrir los años de arbitraje? No hay duda!
    "Sometimes, it's not the sexiest moves that put you over the top," Krivsky said. "It's a series of transactions that help you get there."

  9. #653
    You're soaking in it! MartyFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    3,350

    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    Wouldn't this be a knock against being a closer?
    I don't think so. A SP has to get from one inning to the next for 6 - 7 innings to be successful...a closer needs to be fed adrenaline for one inning and he throws fire...so, I think he trusts that more than facing so many batters over such a time period.
    "Sometimes, it's not the sexiest moves that put you over the top," Krivsky said. "It's a series of transactions that help you get there."

  10. #654
    You're soaking in it! MartyFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    3,350

    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    He is already under team control for 4 more seasons. He won't be a free agent until the offseason before the 2017 season.
    Isn't there value in covering his Arb years so there is no distraction?
    "Sometimes, it's not the sexiest moves that put you over the top," Krivsky said. "It's a series of transactions that help you get there."

  11. #655
    The Big Dog mth123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    14,703

    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Why wouldn't they be able to pick it up in at bat one, but then be able to in at bats 2 or 3? It isn't as if you are going out and facing Barry Zito and he breaks off a slider (which would be shocking, since he doesn't throw one). You are facing Chapman, a guy you know has one and will throw it.

    We certainly hear about and it does happen, that guys go through the line up first time through with 90% fastballs. I don't know that a guy mixing in his other pitches are going to make it easier to hit them later in the game though, assuming they aren't of lesser quality.
    The good hitters might, I'm just thinking getting multiple looks at a guy increases their chances (a lot). Sometimes even crummy guys are good for three innings (and a reason why these results we're seeing in Spring Training for these 2 and 3 inning starts mean little to me). Knowing he has a slider is different than knowing what he has working for him that particular day. Pitchers don't pitch the same each time out and hitters get a read the first time they face the guy which give them an advantage the second time through. That's something a short reliever never needs to deal with..
    "All I can tell them is pick a good one and sock it." --BABE RUTH

    Having better players makes "the right time" or "the big hit" happen a lot more often. PLUS PLUS

  12. #656
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Brownsburg, Indiana
    Posts
    15,268

    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Why wouldn't they be able to pick it up in at bat one, but then be able to in at bats 2 or 3? It isn't as if you are going out and facing Barry Zito and he breaks off a slider (which would be shocking, since he doesn't throw one). You are facing Chapman, a guy you know has one and will throw it.
    That is really "sideline, behind the keyboard" thinking. The more a professional hitter see's a pitchers, stuff, the easier it is to pick it up, but in truth, it never is particularly easy. Against a really good pitcher with good stuff, the more you see it and measure it, the better chance you have to make an adjustment and hit it. It's pretty obvious, (maybe that's a stretch with some folks) that all pitches are not exactly the same from pitcher to pitcher, even from game to game. Some days your slider, curveball, whatever, is better and sharper than others. To discount and think that seeing it one or two times doesn't make a difference to a good hitter is incredibly short sighted.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  13. Likes:

    mth123 (03-23-2013), RadfordVA (03-23-2013), TSJ55 (03-23-2013)

  14. #657
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    34,881

    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN INDY View Post
    That is really "sideline, behind the keyboard" thinking. The more a professional hitter see's a pitchers, stuff, the easier it is to pick it up, but in truth, it never is particularly easy. Against a really good pitcher with good stuff, the more you see it and measure it, the better chance you have to make an adjustment and hit it. It's pretty obvious, (maybe that's a stretch with some folks) that all pitches are not exactly the same from pitcher to pitcher, even from game to game. Some days your slider, curveball, whatever, is better and sharper than others. To discount and think that seeing it one or two times doesn't make a difference to a good hitter is incredibly short sighted.
    No, it is a "those guys are professional hitters" kind of thinking. Aroldis Chapman has been around long enough that guys know what his slider looks like. Yes, some days it isn't as good as others, but that doesn't change anything about being able to tell if it was a slider quickly enough or not. And THAT is what makes the difference.

  15. #658
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Brownsburg, Indiana
    Posts
    15,268

    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    No, it is a "those guys are professional hitters" kind of thinking. Aroldis Chapman has been around long enough that guys know what his slider looks like. Yes, some days it isn't as good as others, but that doesn't change anything about being able to tell if it was a slider quickly enough or not. And THAT is what makes the difference.
    You're sadly mistaken and flat out wrong on this one. Being able to tell what a pitch is and being able to hit it are two separate things. You haven't a clue if you think seeing a pitcher more than one at bat doesn't make a difference to most hitters. THAT you make such a definitive statement like that is quite telling.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  16. #659
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    34,881

    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN INDY View Post
    You're sadly mistaken and flat out wrong on this one. Being able to tell what a pitch is and being able to hit it are two separate things. You haven't a clue if you think seeing a pitcher more than one at bat doesn't make a difference to most hitters. THAT you make such a definitive statement like that is quite telling.
    Of course being able to tell what it is and being able to hit it are different things. But if you can tell a slider is coming, then you are more likely to hit it. If you can't tell it is coming, then you aren't.

    What I am saying is, unless you are tipping the pitch and seeing it more allows you to figure out that a guy is tipping it, then it isn't going to make a difference between seeing it once or seeing it 50 times. Either you can tell it is coming or you can't. And if you can tell it is coming, it is going to be just as easy to hit based on your ability to hit it the first time or the 15th time. Where as if you can't tell it is a slider it isn't going to matter if you see it once or one hundred times because you still don't know how to read a slider from a fastball.

  17. #660
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Brownsburg, Indiana
    Posts
    15,268

    Re: Chapman

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Of course being able to tell what it is and being able to hit it are different things. But if you can tell a slider is coming, then you are more likely to hit it. If you can't tell it is coming, then you aren't.

    What I am saying is, unless you are tipping the pitch and seeing it more allows you to figure out that a guy is tipping it, then it isn't going to make a difference between seeing it once or seeing it 50 times. Either you can tell it is coming or you can't. And if you can tell it is coming, it is going to be just as easy to hit based on your ability to hit it the first time or the 15th time. Where as if you can't tell it is a slider it isn't going to matter if you see it once or one hundred times because you still don't know how to read a slider from a fastball.
    That's incredibly naive. The more you see a guy throw a pitch, the more likely you are to be able to pick up the release point, pick up the spin, gauge its location, break, and speed, and put the bat on it. Basically, knowing what a pitch is doing on any given day. Repetition. Huge in the game of baseball. You may know your stats, but you are way out of your league on this one.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  18. Likes:

    TSJ55 (03-23-2013)


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25