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Thread: The Reds & and the new DH debate

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  1. #1
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    The Reds & and the new DH debate

    There's a lot of speculation about the National League potentially adopting the Designated Hitter next winter and the DH being a full-time staple in both leagues for the 2014 season.

    While I've always been an NL purest and enjoy the pace and strategy of the National League game more than the AL, I'm starting to think there are some potential benefits to the Reds - both short term (in 2014) and looking into the not-so distant future.

    Just a few off the top of my head...

    1. If the NL adopts the DH for 2014, I think it is highly more likely the Reds sign Shin Soo-Choo to a long-term deal. This would allow Ludwick (if Hamilton is ready in center) to slide to a more of a full-time DH role during the last year on his contract.
    2. It could potentially open a spot in the lineup by 2015 for a bat like Donald Lutz, who Dusty seems quite enamored with. Personally, I don't see Lutz playing a full season in left at close to 250 pounds. However, if his bat continues to improve, he would make a decent DH/part-time outfielder candidate.
    3. The same goes for Chris Heisey - from the right-side of the plate.
    4. Most importantly, the DH could serve as a nice buffer for Joey Votto as he ages into the last 11 years of his contract and could serve as protection against the full-time grind on what could be a balky knee.
    5. Finally, the DH could protect Dusty Baker from himself. While I had no issue with the way he managed the bullpen last year, I have been increasingly frustrated by how he uses over matched bench bats in late-inning clutch situations. While this isn't just a Reds problem, the DH could save my head from a few more Dusty-induced gray hairs.

    A lot of what-ifs, but I sense this is a topic that will gain a lot of momentum as we deal with daily interleague games - and two separate sets of rules - this year.

  2. #2
    Member mattfeet's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    Id be like a kid on Christmas if #1 pans out. It does make sense, but I too prefer the NL rules. While it's goofy to have 2 sets of rules for the same sport, I still like that there is some difference between AL and NL.

  3. #3
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    Where is this speculation?

    before you link me let me say, ain't gonna happen

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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Where is this speculation?

    before you link me let me say, ain't gonna happen
    Hope you're right, but I think the DH in the National League is inevitable over the next several years.
    Sto Pro Veritate

  6. #5
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    A lot of those speculations also have Dusty Baker tied in as the Reds Manager. You have to think that Dusty will probably retire eventually in the next few years (just my own thoughts). And the next Reds manager may not have the same managerial tendencies that Dusty has.

  7. #6
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    I don't see it happening. The only step I could see them taking that early would be adopting DH for all interleague games no matter the home venue. Would avoid some of the gripes people have with scheduling now that interleague will be year round. Contenders not wanting to sit their DH final week of season due to being on road in the NL and such. That I wouldn't mind terribly, NL adopting the DH full time is something I hope to never see.

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  9. #7
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    It'll be a sad day for the game of baseball if it does happen.

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  11. #8
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    If you can't hit you are not a real baseball player. If you can't play defense you are not a real baseball player.

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  13. #9
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    If you can't hit you are not a real baseball player. If you can't play defense you are not a real baseball player.
    Pitchers aren't real baseball players? You must really, really hate LOOGYs!
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  14. #10
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Pitchers aren't real baseball players? You must really, really hate LOOGYs!
    If they can't bat without hurting themselves or making a fool of themselves then they are not real baseball players.

    Many people claim we should have the DH so that pitchers don't get hurt while batting or running the bases. If you can't do those things then don't play baseball.

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  16. #11
    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    If they can't bat without hurting themselves or making a fool of themselves then they are not real baseball players.

    Many people claim we should have the DH so that pitchers don't get hurt while batting or running the bases. If you can't do those things then don't play baseball.
    To me the most compelling argument for a DH is, "Who wants to watch a pitcher bat or run the bases?".

    I get that pinch-hitting for the pitcher adds a uniqueness to the NL style of baseball but it's not really dramatically different that AL managers using the pen to exploit platoon splits in the late innings.

    Also, bullpen specialists might represent a class of player with the most limited skillset in their sport. In many cases, they are the baseball version of a placekicker. No one picks on the modern specialization of the pen as an affront to baseball players. I'd take an Edgar Martinez over a George Sherrill (aka "death to lefties") anyday concerning baseball players.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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  18. #12
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    To me the most compelling argument for a DH is, "Who wants to watch a pitcher bat or run the bases?".

    I get that pinch-hitting for the pitcher adds a uniqueness to the NL style of baseball but it's not really dramatically different that AL managers using the pen to exploit platoon splits in the late innings.

    Also, bullpen specialists might represent a class of player with the most limited skillset in their sport. In many cases, they are the baseball version of a placekicker. No one picks on the modern specialization of the pen as an affront to baseball players. I'd take an Edgar Martinez over a George Sherrill (aka "death to lefties") anyday concerning baseball players.
    Me.

    I hate the DH, it's boring baseball

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  20. #13
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    To me the most compelling argument for a DH is, "Who wants to watch a pitcher bat or run the bases?".

    I get that pinch-hitting for the pitcher adds a uniqueness to the NL style of baseball but it's not really dramatically different that AL managers using the pen to exploit platoon splits in the late innings.

    Also, bullpen specialists might represent a class of player with the most limited skillset in their sport. In many cases, they are the baseball version of a placekicker. No one picks on the modern specialization of the pen as an affront to baseball players. I'd take an Edgar Martinez over a George Sherrill (aka "death to lefties") anyday concerning baseball players.
    Who wants to see Shaquille O'Neal shoot free throws? It is part of the game. Just because a player has a weakness doesn't mean his team should be allowed to use another player to pick up his slack. If a player has a weakness he should work hard to improve and get better.

    If you are a baseball player you have to play offense and defense.

    Part of the reason pitchers can't hit is because the DH rule was invented. They stop batting as soon as they turn pro. All through the amateur ranks pitchers play both ways. Oftentimes a team's best pitcher is also their best hitter. A good athlete should be able to do both.

    A pitcher who can hit can be quite an advantage for his team. Team's should be rewarded for having good all-around baseball players instead of nonathletic specialists who can only do one thing well.

    If you are going to allow DHs to bat in the pitcher's spot, why not have a DH for the shortstop too? Shortstop is a defensive position often played by a weak hitter. Who wants to watch a shortstop hit? Shouldn't they allow a real hitter to take his spot in the lineup? Why not just be like football and one group of guys play offense and another group of guys play defense? Nah, that would be ridiculous -- just like the DH.

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  22. #14
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    The sooner it happens, the better it will be for NL baseball. Personally, I don't like the DH, but I also know that it is never going away because the MLBPA isn't going to allow it. Too many guys have held jobs longer than they otherwise would have and gotten paid very well because of it to let it happen.

    It creates inequality for the AL. They can sign contracts that NL teams simply can't. That allows them to stack more talent overall than the NL can. They can sign a big slugger in his early 30's to a big deal that a team in the NL can't because they know in 5-7 years he won't be able to play defense at all, so they can't pay him $15+M. The AL can though.

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  24. #15
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The sooner it happens, the better it will be for NL baseball. Personally, I don't like the DH, but I also know that it is never going away because the MLBPA isn't going to allow it. Too many guys have held jobs longer than they otherwise would have and gotten paid very well because of it to let it happen.

    It creates inequality for the AL. They can sign contracts that NL teams simply can't. That allows them to stack more talent overall than the NL can. They can sign a big slugger in his early 30's to a big deal that a team in the NL can't because they know in 5-7 years he won't be able to play defense at all, so they can't pay him $15+M. The AL can though.
    I think the MLBPA is smart enough to know that the DH doesn't add more money into the game. It shifts money away from young guys and gives it to old guys, but it doesn't increase the total amount of money given to players across the league. There are still going to be 25 roster slots per team with or without the DH. If the DH is making big bucks that is less money the team can give to another player or players. I don't see why the MLBPA would automatically be in favor of the DH.

    If American League teams want to invest a ton of money for a long-term contract to a DH then they will have less money to invest in the rest of their team, so I don't think having the DH gives AL teams an advantage over NL teams. Having a DH doesn't give a team more money to spend on payroll, it merely changes how they distribute the money.


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