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Thread: The Reds & and the new DH debate

  1. #91
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    I was raised on NL baseball and there just isn't any way I'd choose DH baseball. That's the way I was imprinted. I like asymmetry and strategery. I think it makes the games more interesting. If you want purity, then go to 2 platoon offense/defense lineups.

    But I think it's a chocolate vs. vanilla ice cream choice. There is no right answer and it just depends on your tastes.

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  4. #92
    Charlie Brown All-Star IslandRed's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    I was raised on NL baseball and there just isn't any way I'd choose DH baseball. That's the way I was imprinted. I like asymmetry and strategery. I think it makes the games more interesting. If you want purity, then go to 2 platoon offense/defense lineups.

    But I think it's a chocolate vs. vanilla ice cream choice. There is no right answer and it just depends on your tastes.
    Yep. I prefer NL baseball too, but let's call it like it is: All that wonderful extra strategy around the pitcher's spot in the batting order exists to work around the fact that pitchers can't hit. If they could, there wouldn't be a DH. If they could, NL games would look just like AL games.

    I do agree with AD that a pitcher who can hit decently gives his team a competitive edge, but it's pure icing. With very rare exception, a pitcher's ability to hit has zero bearing on whether he has a job or keeps a job. When Aroldis Chapman strides to the plate this season, he's no more there for his hitting skills than he is for his dancing or his joke-telling or his high score on Angry Birds.
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  6. #93
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    Yabbut, the lower a guy bats in the order means they can't hit as well too. Tradeoffs between offense and defense get made all the time. It's not just pitchers. Ray Oyler and Brad Ausmus say hi. It's part of the game.

    Pay attention to the open sky

  7. #94
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Then why are the numbers of appearances made by relievers lasting less than one inning virtually identical between the two leagues historically?

    BTW, I'm confused how one can simultaneously argue this:



    and this:
    I am not surprised. I explained it pretty darn clearly. I guess you could read the posts again if you are really interested in understanding it.

    It is not worth the time to discuss an issue with someone who intentionally distorts the posts of others just so he can avoid admitting he is wrong. You are like this in almost every thread. Just arguing without adding anything useful or interesting to the discussion. You have the option of stating your opinion and moving on without harassing other people who don't share your opinion.

    I don't have a problem with someone preferring the less strategic AL game because in the end it is just a matter of personal opinion, but you have to admit it is insane to argue that a specialist is a more complete player than a player who does it all. If you can't admit that then you are just arguing for the sake of arguing and there is no point in reading your posts, and I don't in most threads.

    If you like having a whole range of players that specialize in doing only one thing well that is fine. Other people appreciate multi-talented athletes who are complete baseball players and can perform all aspects of the game without having to be replaced. The DH exterminates a large portion of the intrigue and nuance of the game that some people still appreciate. I personally believe that National League baseball is a more advanced and challenging form of baseball. It is like chess to checkers. I prefer chess. Some people like checkers better and that is perfectly OK too.

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  9. #95
    Member blumj's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    I really don't see checkers to chess, to me they're both checkers wth slight variations. I grew up watching AL ball, and I expected to see some chess once I got the opportunity to watch more NL games, but all I really see is checkers with different rules. The strategy is too simple to make an entertainment value difference to me. I prefer AL, but only because I don't want to miss those last few seasons of guys like Frank Thomas and Vlad, otherwise, either or both is fine to me.
    "Reality tells us there are no guarantees. Except that some day Jon Lester will be on that list of 100-game winners." - Peter Gammons

  10. #96
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    Quote Originally Posted by blumj View Post
    I really don't see checkers to chess, to me they're both checkers wth slight variations. I grew up watching AL ball, and I expected to see some chess once I got the opportunity to watch more NL games, but all I really see is checkers with different rules. The strategy is too simple to make an entertainment value difference to me. I prefer AL, but only because I don't want to miss those last few seasons of guys like Frank Thomas and Vlad, otherwise, either or both is fine to me.
    I might be the opposite (key word = might). Having followed a NL team my entire life... I might give up on baseball if the NL went to having a DH. I might come back b/c of my ridiculous love for our fav team, but I am not sure. I do not like AL baseball. It is b/c of the DH. It seems like "fake baseball" to me. There used to be a late night show on TV where guys played basketball with trampolines all around the court. That was not real basketball and that is what the AL is like to me b/c of the darn DH. I used to follow the NBA, but gave up on it when the game changed IMO. Same for college basketball.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.

  11. #97
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Aaron Harang is probably going to attempt a bunt until he has 2 strikes unless the bases are loaded or he is in a 2 out situation. In those exceptions, Aaron Harang is going to wildly flail and almost certainly fail.

    There really isn't the fertile strategic majesty that many seem to be suggesting.
    But what factors led up to that bases loaded situation? And how many decisions were made by the managers that got you to this point? How do those decisions change if you are an AL versus NL manager?

    Bottom 6th inning 1-1 ball game, you're the home manager. Your best starter has been pitching brilliantly and has a low pitch count.

    The first 2 batters reach base. With runners on 1st and 2nd the 7th place hitter is up. He has been in a terrible slump lately, but he's your catcher and you can't really PH for him. He is really slow and hits a lot of grounders, so a DP is possible. Do you have him bunt?

    Now assume he bunts, and does so successfully, play out the rest of the inning DH versus no DH for both the home and visiting teams.
    Last edited by puca; 03-13-2013 at 09:04 AM.

  12. #98
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    sorry dp.
    Last edited by puca; 03-13-2013 at 10:17 AM. Reason: Double post

  13. #99
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    Wether we like it or not, the D.H. Is coming. Now here is a simple solution to keep the strategy of the pitcher hitting, while incorporating the D.H. Go to softball batting orders, I.e. a 10 man batting order.

  14. #100
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    Quote Originally Posted by moewan View Post
    Wether we like it or not, the D.H. Is coming. Now here is a simple solution to keep the strategy of the pitcher hitting, while incorporating the D.H. Go to softball batting orders, I.e. a 10 man batting order.
    I could take or leave the DH, but this solution would be the worst. Your best hitters would now come up less often. From a MLB marketing standpoint this would be bad since the games best hitters would now get fewer at-bats.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  15. #101
    a Red in Yankeetown elfmanvt07's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    2014 Reds record: 1-2

    I look like a banker in this...

  16. #102
    The rest is drama. marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    I'm surprised this issue still inspires so much passion. I've been arguing against the DH since year one, but I've honestly come to the point that I don't care anymore. Probably has to do with my medication.

  17. #103
    Member MississippiRed's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    Personally, I like the fact that a pitcher who can hit gives his team a great advantage. When Leake pitches, don't the 8-spot hitters get pitched to more often? Dusty said that Chapman can hit, too. Remember Rick Reuschel (sp?) for the Pirates? Dude could hit and it changed the game for his team.

    No DH for me, please.
    Win some, lose some, some get rained out.

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  19. #104
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    Quote Originally Posted by marcshoe View Post
    I'm surprised this issue still inspires so much passion. I've been arguing against the DH since year one, but I've honestly come to the point that I don't care anymore. Probably has to do with my medication.
    I'm sure I'll be accused of being melodramatic, but to me it is the difference between running on a trail and running on a track or swimming in the ocean versus swimming in a pool. There is a variance - an ebb and flow - to the NL game that is lost with the DH.

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  21. #105
    For a Level Playing Field RedFanAlways1966's Avatar
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    Re: The Reds & and the new DH debate

    Quote Originally Posted by moewan View Post
    Wether we like it or not, the D.H. is coming.
    Really? How do you know this? I have seen it mentioned more than once in this thread (not to call you out), but I have seen zero evidence or a link that tells me this.
    Small market fan... always hoping, but never expecting.


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