Turn Off Ads?
Page 10 of 11 FirstFirst ... 67891011 LastLast
Results 136 to 150 of 164

Thread: Junior Griffey's dedication as a Red

  1. #136
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,445

    Re: Junior Griffey's dedication as a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    Suit yourself. I will continue to side with folks I deem to have the most real world knowledge of a subject.
    Again, it matters on the question. Let's just look at MLB Network for example.

    If the question is: How do you best field a groundball and turn the double play? I want Harold Reynolds giving me the answer.

    If the question is: Who is more valuable between X and Y player? I want Brian Kenny giving me the answer.

    A baseball analyst to me, is going to be answering 10 times as many questions like the second one than the first one. That is why I would much rather have guys like Brian Kenny being analysts than guys like Harold Reynolds.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #137
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    721

    Re: Junior Griffey's dedication as a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Again, it matters on the question. Let's just look at MLB Network for example.

    If the question is: How do you best field a groundball and turn the double play? I want Harold Reynolds giving me the answer.

    If the question is: Who is more valuable between X and Y player? I want Brian Kenny giving me the answer.

    A baseball analyst to me, is going to be answering 10 times as many questions like the second one than the first one. That is why I would much rather have guys like Brian Kenny being analysts than guys like Harold Reynolds.

    And that's great if it's what you like. Players have an intimate knowledge of the game that cannot be duplicated. If a former player were so inclined, he could study the numbers. It doesn't work in reverse.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  4. #138
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,445

    Re: Junior Griffey's dedication as a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    And that's great if it's what you like. Players have an intimate knowledge of the game that cannot be duplicated. If a former player were so inclined, he could study the numbers. It doesn't work in reverse.
    I wish former players were more inclined because they would learn a whole lot.

    And really, if a non-player wanted to learn good swing mechanics, or fielding techniques, they could do that too.

  5. #139
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    721

    Re: Junior Griffey's dedication as a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I wish former players were more inclined because they would learn a whole lot.
    So be it, this is your preference. I'm sure there are some hybrid mathmatician/MLB'rs out there.


    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    And really, if a non-player wanted to learn good swing mechanics, or fielding techniques, they could do that too.
    In theory, maybe. In real life, no. If they could, they wouldn't be "non-players".
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  6. #140
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,445

    Re: Junior Griffey's dedication as a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    So be it, this is your preference. I'm sure there are some hybrid mathmatician/MLB'rs out there.
    There are.

    In theory, maybe. In real life, no. If they could, they wouldn't be "non-players".
    It takes a Major League to know good mechanics? Plenty of coaches and managers out there who never played in the Majors.

  7. #141
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    721

    Re: Junior Griffey's dedication as a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    It takes a Major League to know good mechanics? Plenty of coaches and managers out there who never played in the Majors.
    Nope, but good mechanics does not necessarily a MLB'er make. Plenty of guys in The Show that don't do it by the book (Hunter Pence). It's one of the things that makes the game beautiful.

    You brought up mechanics, not me. All I said is that former players have an intimate knowledge of the game that cannot be duplicated. It takes a major leaguer (coach, manager, player) to know the major leagues. A lot goes on beyond "Hit the ball, catch the ball, throw the ball" regardless of what Skip from Bull Durham says.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  8. #142
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,445

    Re: Junior Griffey's dedication as a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    Nope, but good mechanics does not necessarily a MLB'er make. Plenty of guys in The Show that don't do it by the book (Hunter Pence). It's one of the things that makes the game beautiful.

    You brought up mechanics, not me. All I said is that former players have an intimate knowledge of the game that cannot be duplicated. It takes a major leaguer (coach, manager, player) to know the major leagues. A lot goes on beyond "Hit the ball, catch the ball, throw the ball" regardless of what Skip from Bull Durham says.
    And very little of what goes on besides those things matters since we can count all of those things and they make up a very high rate of a teams wins and losses.

  9. #143
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Calgary, AB
    Posts
    5,914

    Re: Junior Griffey's dedication as a Red

    I think in total, if you compare the aging curve of Griffey to his peers, even despite his injuries, I think he compares pretty favourably.

    The overall opinion of his detractors I find completely appalling. Not because it could not be true (it very well could be), but it is being stated in such a pompous fashion with at maximum, extremely terrible evidence with no believable merit to support their case, and even worse being pompously presented on a REDS board.

    I'm not saying the opinion couldn't be true.

    What I am saying is that I have no difficulty questioning the motives of the opposition when they seem 100% gleeful and tactless to put down one of the most popular players in franchise history when supported with such flawed information. I find it embarassing how anyone thought that tact displayed against Griffey in this thread would provide any kind of thought provoking conversation, and to no surprise, it hasn't.

  10. Likes:

    Always Red (03-15-2013), bigredmechanism (03-13-2013), Griffey012 (03-14-2013), jimbo (03-14-2013), Nasty_Boy (03-14-2013), OnBaseMachine (03-16-2013), RedEye (03-15-2013), Revering4Blue (03-13-2013), RichRed (03-14-2013), westofyou (03-13-2013)

  11. #144
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    721

    Re: Junior Griffey's dedication as a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    And very little of what goes on besides those things matters (as far as I know) since we can count all of those things and they make up a very high rate of a teams wins and losses.
    Added a little something there to make it more accurate. Unless of course I'm mistaken and you HAVE spend significant time in an MLB uni.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  12. #145
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    2,080

    Re: Junior Griffey's dedication as a Red

    Seriously, how does a 220 pound man hit a home run 500 feet with a wood bat off a batting practice pitcher without being strong and physically fit or taking his job remotely seriously?

    And for those who think lifting weights, stretching, etc would have helped prevent injuries...I recommend research former All-Pro NFL safety Bob Sanders. One of those most fit, strong, physical specimens you will ever see and he suffered a number of bizarre injuries time and time again. Everytime he made it back on the field at game speed he was hurt again. Perhaps JR's "hot-dogging" prolonged his career, after all, his injuries always occurred why pushing himself to the max on a play.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

  13. #146
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Guelph, ON
    Posts
    16,027

    Re: Junior Griffey's dedication as a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    Suit yourself. I will continue to side with folks I deem to have the most real world knowledge of a subject.
    What knowledge does Harold Reynolds have that uniquely qualifies him as an analyst? Nothing about being a major league player requires answering the kinds of analytical questions being discussed. His expertise is in playing the game.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  14. Likes:

    dougdirt (03-14-2013), RedEye (03-15-2013)

  15. #147
    breath westofyou's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2000
    Location
    PDX
    Posts
    42,823

    Re: Junior Griffey's dedication as a Red

    This thread cracks me up, it started about Greinke's elbow, morphed into a critique on Junior's physique, turned left into the Baseball players aren't necessarily good analysts because they played baseball, and in fact it's amazing they can string together a thought that might interest someone who knows the game.

    I fully expect to cover some Pete Rose, Larkin to the Mets and Carl Lindner Satan's doppelganger in the future days.

    Godspeed

  16. #148
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Land of the Lost
    Posts
    7,258

    Re: Junior Griffey's dedication as a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    This thread cracks me up, it started about Greinke's elbow, morphed into a critique on Junior's physique, turned left into the Baseball players aren't necessarily good analysts because they played baseball, and in fact it's amazing they can string together a thought that might interest someone who knows the game.

    I fully expect to cover some Pete Rose, Larkin to the Mets and Carl Lindner Satan's doppelganger in the future days.

    Godspeed
    Marge Schott
    Jim Bowden's leather pants
    GABP isn't as nice as _______, they should have put it at Broadway Commons.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  17. #149
    Member
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Louisville, KY
    Posts
    721

    Re: Junior Griffey's dedication as a Red

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    What knowledge does Harold Reynolds have that uniquely qualifies him as an analyst? Nothing about being a major league player requires answering the kinds of analytical questions being discussed. His expertise is in playing the game.
    Not real sure what you mean by "unique" and I've already said that playing the game is not "required" to do the analyst job and possibly do it well.

    I said that I prefer players as analysts (all other things being equal) because they have a point of view that can never be duplicated by non-players because of their expertise is in playing the game at the highest level. A former player can learn to be a good analyst. A good analyst cannot go back and learn to play in The Bigs.
    Last edited by TSJ55; 03-14-2013 at 09:36 AM.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  18. #150
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Carmel, IN
    Posts
    2,224

    Re: Junior Griffey's dedication as a Red

    Absolutely a former player is going to be able to analyze a hitter's swing, a pitcher's mechanics, a fielder's foot work, an outfielder's path to a ball better then I can. I think where most players fall short as analysts is when it comes to talking about strategy and how good other players are. They tend to get caught up in the "well, that's the way it's always been done" thinking and don't like to look outside the box.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25