If he can be as good (or badOriginally Posted by Raisor
Dude hangs out with Bronson.
That right there is a big problem
) as Bronson, I'll be very happy.
If he can be as good (or badDude hangs out with Bronson.
That right there is a big problem
I am not arguing that Leake isn't learning on the job, because I don't really know one way or the other if he is. But I do want to ask, what makes you think that he is learning on the job? Where are the improvements from year one to year three at? What has he been changing in order to make the adjustments from that learning?
Don't take that with some sort of questioning/"you are totally wrong" tone, I know if can read that way and I certainly don't mean it that way. I am honestly curious as to what you, and anyone else has to say about all of those questions when it comes to Leake (and others, though in their own threads of course). As I noted earlier with comparison to the first three years with Cueto/Leake, we saw clear adjustments in pitches, both in usage patterns and effectiveness with Cueto from year one to three. With Leake, we haven't really seen much in terms of effectiveness. That doesn't mean he hasn't tried, or even made adjustments, just that they haven't shown results to this point. I will admit that I haven't looked at his Pitch F/X data to see if he has changed up how often he is using pitches, if he is getting more/less movement than he used to or anything, hence the questions above being asked.
Same stuff, no out pitch. one was a 1st RD pick, the other not.
Some guys get extra chances to keep showing what they have. Leake might improve, or he might just be what we have seen all along... that he's a lucky Matt Maloney.
Dubito Ergo Cogito Ergo Sum.
Opinions fly for some people. Apparently not for others.
For one thing, Leake has spent nearly 0 time in the minor leagues. He has to be learning on the job. It's Major League baseball.
Learning isn't always linear. Some guys get progressively better year after year while some guys muddle along in stops and starts before the light clicks on. Leake may be one of those guys or he may not. But he is at the age and experience level where significant improvement is still a strong possibility.
Certainly it is possible. It is possible for a guy who is 35. I am more curious as to what he has been learning from 22-24 and what adjustments he has been making to attempt to take what he has learned and put it to use.
Leake's first two seasons were pretty damn spectacular considering that he skipped the minor leagues. Sure, he took a step back in 2012, but I don't think there is any way to claim that his presence on the team is not merit-based.
It's possible for a guy who is 35, but it is nowhere near as probable as it is for a guy who is 25 with less than 500 professional innings under his belt.
OGB (03-27-2013)
Doesn't learning imply improvement though? I guess I just don't understand what we're expecting him to change. I see a guy that's gotten about everything he can out of 4+ offerings that are just too hittable. Yea he's young, but I don't see the improvements he has to make coming with age.
Last edited by Superdude; 03-26-2013 at 05:53 PM.
Not everyone makes linear improvements. Some guys take years before they discover how to apply what they have learned. Some guys never make that discovery. Bryan Price is by all accounts one of the most knowledgeable pitching coaches in the game, but he never figured out how to convert all that knowledge into success on the field.
I find it ridiculous to suggest that a guy who arrived in the majors with zero professional innings under his belt is not learning. Of course he is learning. Will he be able to convert that learning into improvements on the field? Only time will tell.
Leake skipped the minors because he spent three years as a starter in college logging almost 400 IP.
The Reds considered him a relatively finished product from a player development standpoint. It's not like he was an 18 yo phenom.
"This isn’t stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner
Nonetheless, straight from the draft to the majors is pretty damn historical, even for the most polished prospects. I can only think of a handful of guys who have done it in my lifetime, and I'm an old fart.
REDREAD (03-26-2013)
I am not making excuses. His Macy card stated that he bought the original shirts. He brought them back to exchange them and he swapped them out himself. That's not stealing. That's why he got off.
I was merely stating that there seem to be so many "perfect" people here on Redzone, that they probably can't let that infraction go. So they will pile up on Mike just for that reason.
That is absolutely stealing. He left the store with items that he was not authorized to leave with.
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