Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 27

Thread: Worldwide Draft?

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Lexington
    Posts
    5,995

    Worldwide Draft?

    Something I've been advocating for a while now.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/0...ide-draft.html

  2. #2
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    7,067

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    It's a no-brainer.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  3. #3
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,429

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    Let's talk about the implementation of it before saying it is a no brainer.

    First, is it going to be a separate draft from the current amateur draft? Or will it be included in the same draft? If it is in the same draft, will the draft go back to 50 rounds instead of 40 that it has now been moved to? Will allotted bonus money go up if this is the case, sense there will be more premium talent or are they going to screw the players once again like they did when they implemented the international cap of $2.9M when there were entire players signing for more than that just a few years before? Will they push the age limit to 18 for international players and make the Dominican Prospect League a real force? Will that force Venezuela to create their own league? When Puerto Rico became eligible for the draft, many point directly to that as the downfall of PR baseball. Would this have the same kind of issue for other countries?

  4. Likes:

    New Fever (03-20-2013)

  5. #4
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    7,067

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Let's talk about the implementation of it before saying it is a no brainer.

    First, is it going to be a separate draft from the current amateur draft? Or will it be included in the same draft? If it is in the same draft, will the draft go back to 50 rounds instead of 40 that it has now been moved to? Will allotted bonus money go up if this is the case, sense there will be more premium talent or are they going to screw the players once again like they did when they implemented the international cap of $2.9M when there were entire players signing for more than that just a few years before? Will they push the age limit to 18 for international players and make the Dominican Prospect League a real force? Will that force Venezuela to create their own league? When Puerto Rico became eligible for the draft, many point directly to that as the downfall of PR baseball. Would this have the same kind of issue for other countries?


    With all the money baseball players make, the expression "screw the players" doesn't really sit well with me.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  6. Likes:

    remdog (03-18-2013)

  7. #5
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,429

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    With all the money baseball players make, the expression "screw the players" doesn't really sit well with me.
    The guys getting screwed aren't the guys making the money. The guys that are getting screwed are the guys who aren't making the money.

    A few years ago, a few players were signing $3-4M bonus deals. Now, teams can't spend that much money on every single player they sign in a single year on the international market (assuming they are under the age of 23). It trickles all the way down. If the tops guys are only getting $1-2M now, that means the mid range guys, who used to get say, $1.5M are now getting $600,000. If those guys are getting just $600,000, then the guys who used to get that are now getting $100,000. And after their buscones take their cut, who knows how much they are actually getting.

    The international market is broken. I want to see it fixed. But you have to do it right. And I don't want to see the players get screwed even more and don't be fooled, the current crop of international prospects, by comparison, is being screwed compared to what the guys setting the rules were (MLBPA) able to work with.

  8. Likes:

    *BaseClogger* (03-19-2013), New Fever (03-20-2013), Steve4192 (03-20-2013)

  9. #6
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    7,067

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The guys getting screwed aren't the guys making the money. The guys that are getting screwed are the guys who aren't making the money.

    A few years ago, a few players were signing $3-4M bonus deals. Now, teams can't spend that much money on every single player they sign in a single year on the international market (assuming they are under the age of 23). It trickles all the way down. If the tops guys are only getting $1-2M now, that means the mid range guys, who used to get say, $1.5M are now getting $600,000. If those guys are getting just $600,000, then the guys who used to get that are now getting $100,000. And after their buscones take their cut, who knows how much they are actually getting.

    The international market is broken. I want to see it fixed. But you have to do it right. And I don't want to see the players get screwed even more and don't be fooled, the current crop of international prospects, by comparison, is being screwed compared to what the guys setting the rules were (MLBPA) able to work with.
    Why are they getting screwed???? They've proven nothing.

    "..........those guys are getting JUST $600,000........", blah, blah, blah...

    I wish I could get paid $600,000 while having proven nothing.

    The way I see it, they have reigned in ridiculous signing bonuses that usually end up as wasted money.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  10. Likes:

    remdog (03-18-2013)

  11. #7
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,429

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Why are they getting screwed???? They've proven nothing.

    "..........those guys are getting JUST $600,000........", blah, blah, blah...

    I wish I could get paid $600,000 while having proven nothing.

    The way I see it, they have reigned in ridiculous signing bonuses that usually end up as wasted money.
    Do you have the talent to command that kind of money? If not, then no one cares what you wish you could get paid.

    The free market shows that these guys have the talent to be paid that. So when that market changes the rules to change that, not because the market isn't there, but because they simply want to pay less (we call that collusion), then the players are getting screwed.

    And yeah, plenty of ones end up as wasted money. But when they work out, they are worth a whole lot more than you initially paid them and it more than makes up for every last missed signing.

    Several trainers have already wondered aloud if Japan is going to start taking over the market in Venezuela and the DR because they too have academies there and can offer twice as much as the MLB teams with these new rules. While a dream to play in the Majors may be something that keeps you from signing there.... $3M extra bucks can change a lot of that.

  12. Likes:

    New Fever (03-20-2013), RadfordVA (03-19-2013)

  13. #8
    Salukifan2
    Guest

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    I think ownership should start pushing incentive laden contracts more. For example Zack Greinke should have reachable incentives that will pay him 25 mil a year. Give him 10 mil guarantee and then incentives like AS appearance, starts, innings, ERA+, etc..

    But the MLBPA is so strong i don't see it happening.

    Rather than mlb becoming more like the NFL, I don't understand why the NFLPA doesn't push for their contracts to be more like the MLB. The NFL is worth more than twice as much as the MLB yet mlb players have the highest contracts. If Josh HAmilton, AP, and Joey Votto are worth 25mil+, then Tom Brady is worth at least $40 mil and so is Peyton Manning.

  14. #9
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,429

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    I think ownership should start pushing incentive laden contracts more. For example Zack Greinke should have reachable incentives that will pay him 25 mil a year. Give him 10 mil guarantee and then incentives like AS appearance, starts, innings, ERA+, etc..

    But the MLBPA is so strong i don't see it happening.

    Rather than mlb becoming more like the NFL, I don't understand why the NFLPA doesn't push for their contracts to be more like the MLB. The NFL is worth more than twice as much as the MLB yet mlb players have the highest contracts. If Josh HAmilton, AP, and Joey Votto are worth 25mil+, then Tom Brady is worth at least $40 mil and so is Peyton Manning.
    Of course the NFL has a salary cap and MLB doesn't. The NFL also has a salary floor.

  15. #10
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2000
    Posts
    21,071

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    I think ownership should start pushing incentive laden contracts more. For example Zack Greinke should have reachable incentives that will pay him 25 mil a year. Give him 10 mil guarantee and then incentives like AS appearance, starts, innings, ERA+, etc..

    But the MLBPA is so strong i don't see it happening.
    .
    Actually, it's not the MLBPA. It's the owners doing it to themselves.
    Look at Greinke. The Dodgers wanted him bad enough to get that huge contract.
    Even if you completely evened out revenue among all teams, you'd still get someone that would take the risk on Grienke (similiar to what LA did)

    In contrast, look at Lohse. He's obviously still asking for too much money, and no one has signed him yet. Noting the MLBPA can do about it. Either Lohse will sign a market deal or he'll sit out a year.

    The point is, Grienke's market value is what he was given.
    Someone brought up Bobby Bonilla.. The Mets made that bizzare deal to buy out the remaining part of his contract. I assume there was some benefit to the Mets at the time, otherwise they wouldn't have offered it.. Can't blame Bonilla for being shrewd enough to accept their offer.

    Yea, it sucks that the Reds have less money to spend on players than LA does, but that's really not the MLBPA's fault.. I doubt they'd disapprove of more revenue sharing, provided it meant more money going to the players.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  16. #11
    Salukifan2
    Guest

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    Mlb has a salary floor, it may not be as high as the nfl but its more than enough to live comfortably on. And it is a subject to the CBA. I dont get why the NFLPA, who just negotiated a new CBA didnt try to get more for its best players. QB is the most important position in all major american sports and they should be paid as such imo. Peyton Manning was bigger than the colts. He should have been paid as such

  17. #12
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The 513
    Posts
    12,642

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    Somehow, I don't see teams that have invested heavily in international academies and assembling vast networks of international scouts wanting to disrupt their talent pipeline to give everyone an equal crack at things.

    We hear cries of "International Draft!" whenever some ridiculous posting fee requirement comes up for a Japanese import. You hear it a lot less when a dude like Johnny Cueto becomes an ace after being unearthed by a Reds scout and signed for pennies on the eventual dollar.
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

  18. Likes:

    remdog (03-18-2013)

  19. #13
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,297

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    I'm not sure that I have ever heard (here or elsewhere) one real, logical hurdle in the way of moving towards an international draft.

  20. #14
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The 513
    Posts
    12,642

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    I'm not sure that I have ever heard (here or elsewhere) one real, logical hurdle in the way of moving towards an international draft.
    The status quo benefits way too many teams.
    Championships Matter.
    23 Years and Counting...

  21. #15
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    16,297

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    The status quo benefits way too many teams.
    Not necessarily logical.


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25