Turn Off Ads?
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 27

Thread: Worldwide Draft?

  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Lexington
    Posts
    6,296

    Worldwide Draft?

    Something I've been advocating for a while now.

    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/0...ide-draft.html

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #2
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    7,067

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    It's a no-brainer.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  4. #3
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,784

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    Let's talk about the implementation of it before saying it is a no brainer.

    First, is it going to be a separate draft from the current amateur draft? Or will it be included in the same draft? If it is in the same draft, will the draft go back to 50 rounds instead of 40 that it has now been moved to? Will allotted bonus money go up if this is the case, sense there will be more premium talent or are they going to screw the players once again like they did when they implemented the international cap of $2.9M when there were entire players signing for more than that just a few years before? Will they push the age limit to 18 for international players and make the Dominican Prospect League a real force? Will that force Venezuela to create their own league? When Puerto Rico became eligible for the draft, many point directly to that as the downfall of PR baseball. Would this have the same kind of issue for other countries?

  5. Likes:

    New Fever (03-20-2013)

  6. #4
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    7,067

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Let's talk about the implementation of it before saying it is a no brainer.

    First, is it going to be a separate draft from the current amateur draft? Or will it be included in the same draft? If it is in the same draft, will the draft go back to 50 rounds instead of 40 that it has now been moved to? Will allotted bonus money go up if this is the case, sense there will be more premium talent or are they going to screw the players once again like they did when they implemented the international cap of $2.9M when there were entire players signing for more than that just a few years before? Will they push the age limit to 18 for international players and make the Dominican Prospect League a real force? Will that force Venezuela to create their own league? When Puerto Rico became eligible for the draft, many point directly to that as the downfall of PR baseball. Would this have the same kind of issue for other countries?


    With all the money baseball players make, the expression "screw the players" doesn't really sit well with me.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  7. Likes:

    remdog (03-18-2013)

  8. #5
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,784

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    With all the money baseball players make, the expression "screw the players" doesn't really sit well with me.
    The guys getting screwed aren't the guys making the money. The guys that are getting screwed are the guys who aren't making the money.

    A few years ago, a few players were signing $3-4M bonus deals. Now, teams can't spend that much money on every single player they sign in a single year on the international market (assuming they are under the age of 23). It trickles all the way down. If the tops guys are only getting $1-2M now, that means the mid range guys, who used to get say, $1.5M are now getting $600,000. If those guys are getting just $600,000, then the guys who used to get that are now getting $100,000. And after their buscones take their cut, who knows how much they are actually getting.

    The international market is broken. I want to see it fixed. But you have to do it right. And I don't want to see the players get screwed even more and don't be fooled, the current crop of international prospects, by comparison, is being screwed compared to what the guys setting the rules were (MLBPA) able to work with.

  9. Likes:

    *BaseClogger* (03-19-2013), New Fever (03-20-2013), Steve4192 (03-20-2013)

  10. #6
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    7,067

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The guys getting screwed aren't the guys making the money. The guys that are getting screwed are the guys who aren't making the money.

    A few years ago, a few players were signing $3-4M bonus deals. Now, teams can't spend that much money on every single player they sign in a single year on the international market (assuming they are under the age of 23). It trickles all the way down. If the tops guys are only getting $1-2M now, that means the mid range guys, who used to get say, $1.5M are now getting $600,000. If those guys are getting just $600,000, then the guys who used to get that are now getting $100,000. And after their buscones take their cut, who knows how much they are actually getting.

    The international market is broken. I want to see it fixed. But you have to do it right. And I don't want to see the players get screwed even more and don't be fooled, the current crop of international prospects, by comparison, is being screwed compared to what the guys setting the rules were (MLBPA) able to work with.
    Why are they getting screwed???? They've proven nothing.

    "..........those guys are getting JUST $600,000........", blah, blah, blah...

    I wish I could get paid $600,000 while having proven nothing.

    The way I see it, they have reigned in ridiculous signing bonuses that usually end up as wasted money.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  11. Likes:

    remdog (03-18-2013)

  12. #7
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,784

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Why are they getting screwed???? They've proven nothing.

    "..........those guys are getting JUST $600,000........", blah, blah, blah...

    I wish I could get paid $600,000 while having proven nothing.

    The way I see it, they have reigned in ridiculous signing bonuses that usually end up as wasted money.
    Do you have the talent to command that kind of money? If not, then no one cares what you wish you could get paid.

    The free market shows that these guys have the talent to be paid that. So when that market changes the rules to change that, not because the market isn't there, but because they simply want to pay less (we call that collusion), then the players are getting screwed.

    And yeah, plenty of ones end up as wasted money. But when they work out, they are worth a whole lot more than you initially paid them and it more than makes up for every last missed signing.

    Several trainers have already wondered aloud if Japan is going to start taking over the market in Venezuela and the DR because they too have academies there and can offer twice as much as the MLB teams with these new rules. While a dream to play in the Majors may be something that keeps you from signing there.... $3M extra bucks can change a lot of that.

  13. Likes:

    New Fever (03-20-2013), RadfordVA (03-19-2013)

  14. #8
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    7,067

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Do you have the talent to command that kind of money? If not, then no one cares what you wish you could get paid.

    The free market shows that these guys have the talent to be paid that. So when that market changes the rules to change that, not because the market isn't there, but because they simply want to pay less (we call that collusion), then the players are getting screwed.

    And yeah, plenty of ones end up as wasted money. But when they work out, they are worth a whole lot more than you initially paid them and it more than makes up for every last missed signing.

    Several trainers have already wondered aloud if Japan is going to start taking over the market in Venezuela and the DR because they too have academies there and can offer twice as much as the MLB teams with these new rules. While a dream to play in the Majors may be something that keeps you from signing there.... $3M extra bucks can change a lot of that.
    I'm all for collusion (shouldn't be illegal) and keeping some of these pathetic contracts based in reality. I also wish none of the contracts were guaranteed. You should be able to fire a guy and cut his pay when he doesn't perform. That's what I like about the NFL. I wish they were all 1-year renewable contracts.

    In tennis and golf, they get paid based on how they perform. And many other sports.

    You're all for wasting money.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  15. #9
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,784

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I'm all for collusion (shouldn't be illegal) and keeping some of these pathetic contracts based in reality. I also wish none of the contracts were guaranteed. You should be able to fire a guy and cut his pay when he doesn't perform. That's what I like about the NFL. I wish they were all 1-year renewable contracts.

    In tennis and golf, they get paid based on how they perform. And many other sports.

    You're all for wasting money.
    I am not for wasting money, I am for allowing the money to be distributed to the people most responsible for the money being available: The players. Right now, contracts are based in reality. Owners aren't losing a dime. They are making money. Take money away from the players and it just means the people responsible for bringing the money in, aren't getting that money and the owner of the team is.

    Every sport is one where players get paid based on how they perform. There is a reason Joey Votto gets paid like he does and Jeff Keppinger gets paid like he does.

    Golf/Tennis/Autoracing - those guys get purses based on where they finish. But they are also directly responsible for their finish. Doesn't work that way in team sports.
    Last edited by dougdirt; 03-18-2013 at 04:09 PM.

  16. #10
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    7,067

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I am not for wasting money, I am for allowing the money to be distributed to the people most responsible for the money being available: The players. Right now, contracts are based in reality. Owners aren't losing a dime. They are making money. Take money away from the players and it just means the people responsible for bringing the money in, aren't getting that money and the owner of the team is.

    Every sport is one where players get paid based on how they perform. There is a reason Joey Votto gets paid like he does and Jeff Keppinger gets paid like he does.

    Golf/Tennis/Autoracing - those guys get purses based on where they finish. But they are also directly responsible for their finish. Doesn't work that way in team sports.
    ..........and Bobby Bonilla is still getting paid by the Mets..........and A-Roid's contract looks so good right now.........LMAO.........

    Okay, maybe Bonilla's is finally paid off. But A-Rod's is horrible.

    There's more slackers and bad contracts than good ones, from what I've witnessed over the years.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  17. #11
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,784

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    ..........and Bobby Bonilla is still getting paid by the Mets..........and A-Roid's contract looks so good right now.........LMAO.........

    Okay, maybe Bonilla's is finally paid off. But A-Rod's is horrible.

    There's more slackers and bad contracts than good ones, from what I've witnessed over the years.
    On the flip side, the best player in baseball last year made $475,000. It evens out. If the money wasn't there, then the players wouldn't get what they get. But the money is there. They are the talent. They are the product. They deserve a whole big chunk of the income from it.

  18. #12
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    7,067

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    On the flip side, the best player in baseball last year made $475,000. It evens out. If the money wasn't there, then the players wouldn't get what they get. But the money is there. They are the talent. They are the product. They deserve a whole big chunk of the income from it.
    I'd probably have less problem with the amount of money if the bad contracts could be wiped out somehow. It could be argued that a team paying a lot of bad contracts are limited in paying more money to those deserved.

    Seems like the Cubs had a whole chunk of bad contracts in the last 5 years.

    I enjoyed watching the NFL release a ton of overpaid underperforming guys in the last few weeks. I wish MLB had no guaranteed money except maybe up front, with a limit on it. Then when your .300 hitting, 30 HR guy hits about 34 years old and becomes that .250, 15 HR guy with the same amount of plate appearances over several seasons, you could cut him.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  19. #13
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    241

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Do you have the talent to command that kind of money? If not, then no one cares what you wish you could get paid.

    The free market shows that these guys have the talent to be paid that. So when that market changes the rules to change that, not because the market isn't there, but because they simply want to pay less (we call that collusion), then the players are getting screwed.


    And yeah, plenty of ones end up as wasted money. But when they work out, they are worth a whole lot more than you initially paid them and it more than makes up for every last missed signing.

    Several trainers have already wondered aloud if Japan is going to start taking over the market in Venezuela and the DR because they too have academies there and can offer twice as much as the MLB teams with these new rules. While a dream to play in the Majors may be something that keeps you from signing there.... $3M extra bucks can change a lot of that.
    It's not a complete free market - it's an overinlfated market, because the other free agents have rules / costs. Current veterans can cost draft picks, American players are drafted. If it was a free market and teams could bid on Bryce Harper, what would he have attained. If American players would get their "free market" worth, then some of the internationals would be given much less. Their market is overinflated because the rest of the supply is limited.

  20. #14
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,784

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by UCBrownsfan View Post
    It's not a complete free market - it's an overinlfated market, because the other free agents have rules / costs. Current veterans can cost draft picks, American players are drafted. If it was a free market and teams could bid on Bryce Harper, what would he have attained. If American players would get their "free market" worth, then some of the internationals would be given much less. Their market is overinflated because the rest of the supply is limited.
    I can see that point of view. I certainly think that American players get screwed versus their international counterparts who can play teams against each other.

    I am not against a slotting system with an international draft. But I want to see the money be comparable too. I don't want to see this as a way for owners to save $1-2M a year at the expense of players.

  21. #15
    always ask questions bigredmechanism's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    new jersey
    Posts
    2,236

    Re: Worldwide Draft?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Then when your .300 hitting, 30 HR guy hits about 34 years old and becomes that .250, 15 HR guy with the same amount of plate appearances over several seasons, you could cut him.
    Baseball teams can still cut any player they wish, they just need to pay off the rest of the salary that they are contractually obligated to pay.

    What about the flipside of your scenario? If you sign a contract and you're usually a .250, 15 HR guy and now all of a sudden a light turns on and you bat .300 with 30 HR, should you be able to just deem yourself a free agent? That's silly.

    What's the point of signing a contract if it doesn't mean anything?
    Award Winning Baseball Player

  22. Likes:

    *BaseClogger* (03-19-2013), RadfordVA (03-19-2013)


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25