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Thread: Greatest individual season?

  1. #16
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest individual season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    Pedro's 1999-2001 is probably the most dominant 3 year stretch in history for a pitcher. I think the debate would be between pedros late 90's early 2000's and Koufax's mid 60's
    I don't think it is really even close. From 97-03, Pedro posted a 213 ERA+ with 1408 IP, 1761 K, 315 BB and a 0.94 WHIP. The final 7 years of his career, Koufax has a 147 ERA+. The final 5 years? A 167 ERA+. Not even close to what Pedro did. Greg Maddux has a darn good stretch from 92-98, but his ERA+ was still just at 190. 1675 innings in that time though.

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  3. #17
    Salukifan2
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    Re: Greatest individual season?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I don't think it is really even close. From 97-03, Pedro posted a 213 ERA+ with 1408 IP, 1761 K, 315 BB and a 0.94 WHIP. The final 7 years of his career, Koufax has a 147 ERA+. The final 5 years? A 167 ERA+. Not even close to what Pedro did. Greg Maddux has a darn good stretch from 92-98, but his ERA+ was still just at 190. 1675 innings in that time though.
    They were all so spectacular. I think when players are so dominant like all three of those were, Gibson was, or Clemens etc.. It helps me to ask myself, "Who would I want starting game 7 of the WS?"

    When I ask myself that Maddux immediately falls off my list.

  4. #18
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    Re: Greatest individual season?

    As far as individual seasons by a Reds player in my lifetime, Foster's 1977* effort was probably among the best.

    .320/.368/.631/1.013 (R) 124 (H) 197 (2B) 31 (3B) 2 (HR) 52 (RBI) 149 (TB) 388 (OPS+) 165

    *When HR's were real HR's
    Last edited by corkedbat; 03-18-2013 at 04:29 PM.

  5. #19
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest individual season?

    Given what Johnny Bench also brought behind the plate, give me his 1972 with the 166 OPS+.

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  7. #20
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    Re: Greatest individual season?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Given what Johnny Bench also brought behind the plate, give me his 1972 with the 166 OPS+.
    Morgan '76, for Reds in my lifetime. 186 OPS+, add in 60 SB on 69 attempts and a GG. What a ballplayer.
    Thank goodness for baseball.

  8. #21
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest individual season?

    Quote Originally Posted by PickOff View Post
    Morgan '76, for Reds in my lifetime. 186 OPS+, add in 60 SB on 69 attempts and a GG. What a ballplayer.
    I thought about that, but Bench changed the game behind the plate. Plus, in that 72 season he threw out 56% of attempted base stealers. I will take that over Morgan, who was just fantastic.

  9. #22
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    Re: Greatest individual season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    The question is not what is the greatest season ever in comparison to what the other players in the league were doing. Unless they can determine the balls were wound tighter in 1930, or bats were harder in 1930 i dont think it really matters what the league average says. In fact it may help Wilson's case. In the year where so many were having MVP seasons his stood head and shoulders above the rest.

    If how good the season is relative to compettitors is what we are looking at then Ruth's early Yankee seasons should win hands down.

    I would also like to nominate Bob Gibson's 1968 season:
    22-9, ERA of 1.12, 13 shutouts, 28 Complete games, 304.2 IP and only 198 hits, 268 k's, ERA+ 258, WHIP .853.

    Accolades: MVP, Cy Young Award, All-Star, Gold Glove
    I agree with you here. I don't care what everyone else was doing that season, or what ball was used, or stadiums played in, it all comes down to production.

    The reality is that we have no idea how Wilson or Gibson would have done in other seasons, at that point in their careers, under different circumstances. Maybe they would have adjusted to the other ball, or different mound, and still been as dominant. What their numbers tell me is that they were able to take advantage of an advantage given to them, and they shouldn't be dinged for that as we re-tell their history.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  10. #23
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    Re: Greatest individual season?

    Somewhere in this thread there should be a mention of Honus Wagner's 1908 season. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but he led the league in basically everything while playing a key defensive position and playing it well.
    "In baseball, you don't know nothin'"...Yogi Berra

  11. #24
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest individual season?

    A season that often goes overlooked: Steve Carlton in 1972.

    41 GS, 346.1 IP, 1.97 ERA, 2.01 FIP. Using fWAR (which uses FIP), it was the greatest pitching season of all time, a hair ahead of Pedro's 1999.

    But in terms of most dominant season of all time, on a per start basis, Pedro blows everybody out of the water.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  12. #25
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chicoruiz View Post
    Somewhere in this thread there should be a mention of Honus Wagner's 1908 season. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but he led the league in basically everything while playing a key defensive position and playing it well.
    1908 was the lowest hitting year in MLB (I unlike some feel that environment is important and should be noted)

    Wagner's 1908 was exceptional

    .349 .423 .520

  13. #26
    Salukifan2
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    Re: Greatest individual season?

    Its too bad that Tony Gwynn and Matt Williams had their '94 seasons cut short or we might be talking about them

  14. #27
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest individual season?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I don't think it is really even close. From 97-03, Pedro posted a 213 ERA+ with 1408 IP, 1761 K, 315 BB and a 0.94 WHIP. The final 7 years of his career, Koufax has a 147 ERA+. The final 5 years? A 167 ERA+. Not even close to what Pedro did. Greg Maddux has a darn good stretch from 92-98, but his ERA+ was still just at 190. 1675 innings in that time though.
    It isn't close so long as 7 innings is all you expect from a starting pitcher. I know, I know, the conditions of the game in the late 1990 and early 2000s were different than they were in the 1960s, but I do wish some recognition was given to the different workloads that Koufax, Gibson, Marichal, et al, labored under as compared to pitchers 30 years later.
    In Koufax's peak season from 1963 through 1966 he pitched 1192 innings compared to 904 innings logged by Pedro in his peak four year run from 1997 through 2000. Sandy went 97-27 during that stretch compared to Pedro's 77-25 mark during his four year stretch. On a per inning basis Pedro was better but the greater workload of Sandy deserves mention.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  15. #28
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest individual season?

    I just wonder how Gibson lost 9 games in '68. I've seen a breakdown and there were several 1-0 games.

    Bonds at his peak was unreal. If he got a pitch, it was gone. Walking him was the best option. I think he got IBB'ed woithe bases loaded a couple times.

    Maddux was a master, but I had a hard time getting over my Braves hatred.

    Pay attention to the open sky

  16. #29
    Big Red Machine RedsBaron's Avatar
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    Re: Greatest individual season?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    I like 1921 Babe Ruth, mostly because it really blew the doors off the game a year after they claimed his 1920 season was a one time deal

    .378/.512/.846 59 HR's 171 RBIs, 177 RS - NO IBB - 109 EBH
    Babe's peak seasons were 1920-23 but I really like his last season as a Red Sox in 1919. In only 432 at bats Babe hit .322 while leading the AL with a then all time record of 29 HRs, along with league highs in 114 RBI, 103 runs, .456 OBP and .657 SLG while also going 9-5 with a 2.97 ERA in 133 innings as a pitcher. He was like the best kid in Little League who is both the best hitter and the best pitcher.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."

  17. #30
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    Re: Greatest individual season?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salukifan2 View Post
    They were all so spectacular. I think when players are so dominant like all three of those were, Gibson was, or Clemens etc.. It helps me to ask myself, "Who would I want starting game 7 of the WS?"

    When I ask myself that Maddux immediately falls off my list.
    When I ask myself that I don't think of Maddux or Clemens or Pedro. I want either Koufax or Gibson.
    "Hey...Dad. Wanna Have A Catch?" Kevin Costner in "Field Of Dreams."


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