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Thread: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    I suppose you don't care for the Olympics, either. One of the reasons why the US is so successful in Olympic sports is because of our college sports system. Of course, most of those sports are not revenue generating sports for colleges. So you say goodbye to most swim teams, track teams, women's sports, and more. Colleges provide opportunities for great athletes to perfect their skills while getting an education, and many of those athletes wouldn't be able to afford college or continue to train without scholarships. They'd have to give it up or get a job. Then Olympic sports become more like gymnastics and figure skating, where only those with parents who can afford to fund their kids on their own or put their kids into elite sports academies get a shot.

    And I wouldn't call a free education unfair compensation, considering how much those who don't have scholarships have to pay. Oh, add to that the free room and board, where many athletes get special consideration on housing, free food (with much more food credit than the average student), free health care (which I had to pay for myself). Add in the future benefits in earning potential these players get from a college degree, compared to what those who don't have a degree make, and they have it quite good. Take that away and a lot of the players from low income backgrounds end up with a few years of minor league ball and a career in manual labor, or if they get injured, maybe a life on social security disability, because the NFL and NBA aren't going to pay for pensions for players who don't play in the NFL or NBA. If a college kid gets injured, they can at least finish their degree and have the potential to find a job where having blown out knees or a bad back isn't a liability.
    Great post.
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  3. #167
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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by nmculbreth View Post
    What you're missing is that intercollegiate athletics have an intrinsic value and enhance the collegiate environment in a way that is impossible to quantify and as such shouldn't be treated like a subsidiary arm of a corporation.

    That being said I think it's pretty arbitrary that the funding of non-revenue sports should be derived from the profits of the revenue generating sports and at the expense of the athletes that create that money. If a university feels that intercollegiate athletics are an important part of a vibrant campus (and I do) then they should fund them independently and on an equal basis with regards to gender.
    I know several people who don't get sports at all. They could not care a bit about them. They seemed to get through college just fine and move forward in their lives with their degree.

    Not a single university in the world, off the record of course, would tell you that womens athletics are as important to a vibrant campus as mens sports. All you need to do is look at the attendance between baseball/softball, mens BB/womens BB or football and anything else. They of course won't come out and say that, but anyone being remotely honest with themselves knows it is the truth.

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I know several people who don't get sports at all. They could not care a bit about them. They seemed to get through college just fine and move forward in their lives with their degree.
    Fair point. I need to get Xavier to shut down its singing group. I never went to see those losers and got through college just fine.

    Colleges should be a couple of classrooms, a dorm and a cafeteria. All where costs are fully paid by the students (plus a nice profit margin). The profs should all be sponsored by industry, too. The Exxon-Mobil chair for the Department of Climate Studies has a nice ring to it.

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I know several people who don't get sports at all. They could not care a bit about them. They seemed to get through college just fine and move forward in their lives with their degree.

    Not a single university in the world, off the record of course, would tell you that womens athletics are as important to a vibrant campus as mens sports. All you need to do is look at the attendance between baseball/softball, mens BB/womens BB or football and anything else. They of course won't come out and say that, but anyone being remotely honest with themselves knows it is the truth.
    There were a ton of extracurricular opportunities that I chose not to avail myself of in college, it doesn't mean that they shouldn't have been funded...

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I know several people who don't get sports at all. They could not care a bit about them. They seemed to get through college just fine and move forward in their lives with their degree.

    Not a single university in the world, off the record of course, would tell you that womens athletics are as important to a vibrant campus as mens sports. All you need to do is look at the attendance between baseball/softball, mens BB/womens BB or football and anything else. They of course won't come out and say that, but anyone being remotely honest with themselves knows it is the truth.
    Universities didn't really start their sports programs to make money or provide a vibrant campus life so that students could have fun sports to watch. They started sports programs out of the whole "sound mind, sound body" movement popular in the late 1800s and early 1900s. That some universities have been able to generate revenue from a few popular sports is happenstance. I think just about all universities will survive just fine without big-time football and basketball programs. I don't think anybody is saying they won't go to Ohio State, Alabama or USC if they don't have football and basketball. But the people who will get screwed will be those guys with athletic talent but went to mediocre public schools in inner cities and have no real prospect of pro ball who will no longer have athletic scholarship programs available to them.
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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Yes, they are. They charge money for a product. The customer gets a product for their money.
    So why give academic scholarships?
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yachtzee View Post
    Universities didn't really start their sports programs to make money or provide a vibrant campus life so that students could have fun sports to watch. They started sports programs out of the whole "sound mind, sound body" movement popular in the late 1800s and early 1900s. That some universities have been able to generate revenue from a few popular sports is happenstance. I think just about all universities will survive just fine without big-time football and basketball programs. I don't think anybody is saying they won't go to Ohio State, Alabama or USC if they don't have football and basketball. But the people who will get screwed will be those guys with athletic talent but went to mediocre public schools in inner cities and have no real prospect of pro ball who will no longer have athletic scholarship programs available to them.
    Yes, it would suck to see some people lose their scholarships. Poor people that want to go to college find a way if they want to go to school though. It requires more work than being good at a sport, but if you really want to further your education, you can get it done.

    End of the day, people should be paid what they are worth. When football programs are profiting $30+M, the players should be getting some of that.

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    So why give academic scholarships?
    They shouldn't, but it is tradition because once upon a time when teams weren't raking in millions of dollars, it made sense to do that. Those days are long gone though.

    I would much rather the schools just pay the kids $400,000 a year to play and have the kid have to pay tuition out of his pocket.

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    They shouldn't, but it is tradition because once upon a time when teams weren't raking in millions of dollars, it made sense to do that. Those days are long gone though.

    I would much rather the schools just pay the kids $400,000 a year to play and have the kid have to pay tuition out of his pocket.
    Academic scholarships?
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    Academic scholarships?
    Apparently I won't be getting one since I can't read.

    They can give academic scholarships all they want. I don't see the connection you are trying to make. Expand on it a little bit and I will reply with some more thoughts.

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Apparently I won't be getting one since I can't read.

    They can give academic scholarships all they want. I don't see the connection you are trying to make. Expand on it a little bit and I will reply with some more thoughts.
    Why give freebies at all?
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    Why give freebies at all?
    It improves your numbers, which brings in money for the school via grants or other students paying to come there because you rank higher in a given field of study because you let someone attend class for free.

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    It improves your numbers, which brings in money for the school via grants or other students paying to come there because you rank higher in a given field of study because you let someone attend class for free.
    I'd say that a large/active athletic department (not just football and basketball) contributes to the overall campus life enough to justify its' existence.

    Now, comparing a university to a business. Let's look at a university's mission statement. Let's use UC:

    "The University of Cincinnati serves the people of Ohio, the nation, and the world as a premier, public, urban research university dedicated to undergraduate, graduate, and professional education, experience-based learning, and research. We are committed to excellence and diversity in our students, faculty, staff, and all of our activities. We provide an inclusive environment where innovation and freedom of intellectual inquiry flourish. Through scholarship, service, partnerships, and leadership, we create opportunity, develop educated and engaged citizens, enhance the economy and enrich our university, city, state and global community."

    Nothing about profit or the serving of share holders. If those who run universities feel that athletics fit within the mission statement and enhance it even, without breaking the budget, then universities most definitely should continue giving athletic scholarships and finding athletic departments.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by dabvu2498 View Post
    I'd say that a large/active athletic department (not just football and basketball) contributes to the overall campus life enough to justify its' existence.

    Now, comparing a university to a business. Let's look at a university's mission statement. Let's use UC:

    "The University of Cincinnati serves the people of Ohio, the nation, and the world as a premier, public, urban research university dedicated to undergraduate, graduate, and professional education, experience-based learning, and research. We are committed to excellence and diversity in our students, faculty, staff, and all of our activities. We provide an inclusive environment where innovation and freedom of intellectual inquiry flourish. Through scholarship, service, partnerships, and leadership, we create opportunity, develop educated and engaged citizens, enhance the economy and enrich our university, city, state and global community."

    Nothing about profit or the serving of share holders. If those who run universities feel that athletics fit within the mission statement and enhance it even, without breaking the budget, then universities most definitely should continue giving athletic scholarships and finding athletic departments.
    Of course the school thinks its great. They are the ones raking in the money and seeing the benefit from it.

    If you worked at a place that had a very small number of employees (football/basketball) who were responsible for 90% of the money generated by the entire company (athletic department), while a majority of the employees (all other athletics) lost the company money, wouldn't you think that the guys generating the revenue should be getting some raises and the guys not making the company any money would be sent packing?

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Of course the school thinks its great. They are the ones raking in the money and seeing the benefit from it.

    If you worked at a place that had a very small number of employees (football/basketball) who were responsible for 90% of the money generated by the entire company (athletic department), while a majority of the employees (all other athletics) lost the company money, wouldn't you think that the guys generating the revenue should be getting some raises and the guys not making the company any money would be sent packing?
    We're back to the point that universities aren't businesses.
    When all is said and done more is said than done.


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