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Thread: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

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    Five Tool Fool jojo's Avatar
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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by improbus View Post
    That number was exclusively for the athletic department. Not the university at large. Now, the "Grant-in-aid" money paid to the university does go to pay the teachers at the school, so schools essentially get to double dip. It reminds me of the old "company towns" run by Carnegie, where the employees get their paycheck and spend it at Carnegie stores. OSU players get their scholarships and it gets spent at the school.
    These are people teaching and supporting student athletes.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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  3. #317
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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    These are people teaching and supporting student athletes.
    The general university staff isn't seeing a dime from the athletic revenue. That revenue is going to athletic department officials, coaches and the academic/athletic support staff.

    The academic advisers do not teach. They simply advise athletes on what classes to take and how to stay eligible.

    I have a few friends that are academic advisers at FBS and FCS schools and their jobs should never, ever, be mentioned in the same category as professors. Their jobs, to be frank, are all about keeping athletes eligible. Without betraying confidences, let's just say it's a dirty business keeping guys eligible at the Division I level.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    The authors at Sportsgeekonomics have written a paper trying to dispel a lot of "myths" (as they call them) around paying college athletes. It's a very interesting read and relevant to a lot of the discussion in this thread.

    http://sportsgeekonomics.tumblr.com/myths

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    Brutus (09-29-2013), dougdirt (09-29-2013), Redsfaithful (09-29-2013)

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    The general university staff isn't seeing a dime from the athletic revenue. That revenue is going to athletic department officials, coaches and the academic/athletic support staff.

    The academic advisers do not teach. They simply advise athletes on what classes to take and how to stay eligible.

    I have a few friends that are academic advisers at FBS and FCS schools and their jobs should never, ever, be mentioned in the same category as professors. Their jobs, to be frank, are all about keeping athletes eligible. Without betraying confidences, let's just say it's a dirty business keeping guys eligible at the Division I level.
    And you've completely missed the point.

    Improbus is suggesting individuals are getting rich on the backs of student athletes by identifying ways universities are reinvesting in student athletes. BTW it is intellectually dishonest to suggest I equated an academic adviser and a professor but it is illogical to deny coaching and support staff are not involved in teaching.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Redsfaithful View Post
    Kids in law school at Harvard probably make more on their internships than kids that go to UC law school.

    So what?

    Sea Ray you're a conservative guy, I know you're a fan of the free market. I'm confident the free market would sort this stuff out if we let it.
    Sports in general don't work as a free market. Sports work best as a Communist state. MLB is too much of a free market. If you let the free market reign then we'll look at the same schools competing for the NC every year and that's not a good thing.

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Sports in general don't work as a free market. Sports work best as a Communist state. MLB is too much of a free market. If you let the free market reign then we'll look at the same schools competing for the NC every year and that's not a good thing.
    The same schools are already competing for the NC every year.

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The same schools are already competing for the NC every year.
    I admit that this isn't a great year for parity. I've been disappointed in all the blowouts but the idea is that you try to level the playing field between OSU/Mich and the rest of the Big Ten. Ditto for USC and the rest of the PAC12. If you make it a free market you'll decrease the parity and you'll hurt women's athletics greatly

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    And you've completely missed the point.

    Improbus is suggesting individuals are getting rich on the backs of student athletes by identifying ways universities are reinvesting in student athletes. BTW it is intellectually dishonest to suggest I equated an academic adviser and a professor but it is illogical to deny coaching and support staff are not involved in teaching.
    No it's not "intellectually dishonest" That is exactly how it came across. If that's not how you meant it, then you didn't make your point very clear.

    Coaches are teachers, but they're teachers of athletics which is separate from academics. That's the whole point being made. Athletics and its revenue is separate from general education
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    I admit that this isn't a great year for parity. I've been disappointed in all the blowouts but the idea is that you try to level the playing field between OSU/Mich and the rest of the Big Ten. Ditto for USC and the rest of the PAC12. If you make it a free market you'll decrease the parity and you'll hurt women's athletics greatly
    I could not care about womens athletics if you paid me to. They are slow and boring. It is why I don't care about high school sports too. Slow. Boring.

    There isn't parity in college football right now. There is the top 3 teams in the SEC every year, Ohio State and one of Michigan/Wisconsin, a Pac 12 team or two (USC/Oregon) and a Big 12 school or two in some years. Then you will get the teams that ride a soft schedule to a good record every now and again, who are good, but not in the same level (Louisville this year, Cincinnati/Boise State in past years).

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    No it's not "intellectually dishonest" That is exactly how it came across. If that's not how you meant it, then you didn't make your point very clear.

    Coaches are teachers, but they're teachers of athletics which is separate from academics. That's the whole point being made. Athletics and its revenue is separate from general education
    And athletics have traditioanlly been considered an enriching educational experience that teaches lessons not possible in a classroom. Unless you're willing to argue that the Buckeye football program is a completely separate entity that is not a tangible part of OSU's educational mission, i.e. argue the student and the athlete are two discreet entities, then your point is pretty cloudy.

    But lets be crystal clear-the point being made by some was that individuals are getting rich on the back of student athletes. I have yet to see the "individuals" named..i.e. faces put on these hideous humans. So far, we've seen proof that universities are using the revenue to enrich the educational experience of it's student athletes. Those jerks.

    Do student athletes in Eugene need to train in a gazillion dollar football complex? Well, no, of course not. But revenue generated by the footall program does more than pay for better footballs. It lifts all student athletes across all sports-and again, I think all would concede that collegiate athletics have important educational benefits. But importantly football revenue lifts the educational experience non-athlete students by funding resources campus wide (such as libraries and student activity centers) and channeling millions of dollars into non-athletic scholarship funds that allow access to those who may not otherwise have access to a college eduction. It's disengenuous to suggest otherwise.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I could not care about womens athletics if you paid me to. They are slow and boring. It is why I don't care about high school sports too. Slow. Boring.

    There isn't parity in college football right now. There is the top 3 teams in the SEC every year, Ohio State and one of Michigan/Wisconsin, a Pac 12 team or two (USC/Oregon) and a Big 12 school or two in some years. Then you will get the teams that ride a soft schedule to a good record every now and again, who are good, but not in the same level (Louisville this year, Cincinnati/Boise State in past years).
    You may only care about the big boys but people more powerful than you disagree. I think Title IX is nuts but it's the law of the land and we have to live with it. And it applies to more than just women's sports. you can't give benefits to the football team that you don't give to the baseball team.

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    But lets be crystal clear-the point being made by some was that individuals are getting rich on the back of student athletes. I have yet to see the "individuals" named..i.e. faces put on these hideous humans. So far, we've seen proof that universities are using the revenue to enrich the educational experience of it's student athletes. Those jerks.
    Lots of folks have gotten rich off of these athletes. Look at Lane Kiffin and most any other head coach in college football. Look at the ADs.

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    Lots of folks have gotten rich off of these athletes. Look at Lane Kiffin and most any other head coach in college football. Look at the ADs.
    I can't believe anyone would even argue that. One only needs to look at any single of the many studies that have been done on coaches' salaries, AD salaries and conference commissioner salaries to see there are plenty of people getting rich.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    But lets be crystal clear-the point being made by some was that individuals are getting rich on the back of student athletes. I have yet to see the "individuals" named..i.e. faces put on these hideous humans. So far, we've seen proof that universities are using the revenue to enrich the educational experience of it's student athletes. Those jerks.
    Look around 'BCS' schools. Football and basketball coaches, senior administrators, conference commissioners, and TV executives are all getting rich off of the current state of college athletics.

    (http://sportsgeekonomics.tumblr.com/...-plating-among)

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    Re: O'Bannon v. NCAA (aka Could Ohio State go D3)

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Ray View Post
    You may only care about the big boys but people more powerful than you disagree. I think Title IX is nuts but it's the law of the land and we have to live with it. And it applies to more than just women's sports. you can't give benefits to the football team that you don't give to the baseball team.
    The people with money don't care an ounce about them.

    I am also not sure that your last sentence is true or not.


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