Turn Off Ads?
Page 4 of 24 FirstFirst 1234567814 ... LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 359

Thread: Chapman to bullpen now official

  1. #46
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    8,442

    Re: With Chapman now officially back in the bullpen

    Hold everything. Nothing is "official" yet about this decision.

    https://twitter.com/m_sheldon
    "I’ll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. That’s just how I do things.” -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #47
    Waitin til next year bucksfan2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Cincinnati
    Posts
    10,290

    Re: With Chapman now officially back in the bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    I really don't understand this assertion that the Reds had question marks in their pen.

    With Chapman, the Reds bullpen had the NL's best ERA (2.65) and 2nd best FIP (3.26).

    Removing Chapman, the Reds bullpen had a 2.88 ERA and a 3.59 ERA. Those would have been good for 3rd and 4th in the NL respectively. Absent Chapman, we had one of the best bullpen's in the NL last year -- measured by actual runs or skills.

    Now, we wouldn't have been replacing Chapman with replacement level performance. He have been replaced by, essentially, 30-40 more innings from each Broxton and Hoover.

    Yes, without a doubt the bullpen is stronger with Chapman than without him. But the potential upgrade from Leake (or Arroyo if he falls apart again) to Chapaman is significantly greater than the downgrade from Chapman to his bullpen replacements. The Reds bullpen was, is and will be a strength of this team regardless of where Chapman spends his time this year.

    If you don't believe that, please feel free to play around in my "projection machine" and test your assumptions.

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...0E&usp=sharing

    Given the Reds odd fascination with Logan Ondrusek, putting Chapman back to the pen probably costs Hoover a spot. While the upgrade in the rotation may have very well been smaller than many of us hope, the upgrade in the pen is not nearly as big as people make it out to be.

    I'm holding out hope that they're announcing the Kris Medlan plan.
    I am holding out hope that Chapman closes the Reds 4th win in the World Series.

    The problem with bullpens is that they are inconsistent and vary from year to year. I put more faith in live arms than I do era's. If you remove Chapman from the rotation then your giving more important innings to a guy like Ondrusek. He is pushed in the 7th inning or he his the RH reliever in the 8th.

    I agree that the Reds have some kind of fascination with Ondrusek that I just don't understand. And I second the idea that I would like Hoover getting Ondrusek's innings but so far that hasn't happened. If you shorten the depth of the pen are your comfortable with Ondrusek or Simon getting important innings?

    Would like to see Chapman get a chance to start. But I also think in a short series a pen like the Reds with Chapman shortens the game. Over the course of a season Mike Leake provides valuable innings and isn't a bad option to take the ball every 5 days and give you 200 IP. Chapman is a wild card, he could go boom as a starter or he could go bust. I don't have an issue with a team trying to win moving him back to the pen.

  4. Likes:

    coachpipe (03-21-2013)

  5. #48
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    8,442

    Re: With Chapman now officially back in the bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I put more faith in live arms than I do era's.
    That makes no sense. ERA is not a perfect stat, but at least it measures something.
    "I’ll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. That’s just how I do things.” -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  6. #49
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    St. Louis, Mo
    Posts
    3,703

    Re: With Chapman now officially back in the bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Is $30M what is owed to Tulowitzki?

    I like the trade in theory, but I also recognize the Reds are tapped out. The only players Walt is going to trade for at this point are guys like Latos that are under control for awhile. The Reds still have guys on the horizon who are due some serious money. I don't see them adding a big contract.
    I'm glad to see that the Tulo love is as fervent here as the hypothetical threads I'm seeing on the Cardinals boards.
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

    “I just want to tell everyone Happy Easter and Happy Hanukkah.” says on the day before Easter

    Mike Shannon

  7. #50
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    8,442

    Re: With Chapman now officially back in the bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by coachpipe View Post
    A pitcher is signed as a pitcher and then put in the role best for THEM. You know where that person feels the most comfortable and able to help the TEAM win.
    Getting 200 innings of ace-like performance is far more likely to make a team win than 70 innings of a shutdown closer. Chapman might feel more comfortable now as a closer, but that's because he just did it last year. Choo feels more comfortable as a RF, but that doesn't mean he can't play CF, too. Broxton, Hoover et al. are more than capable of holding down the fort while the team sees what it has in Chapman. If he fails, he can always go back.
    Last edited by RedEye; 03-21-2013 at 02:14 PM.
    "I’ll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. That’s just how I do things.” -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  8. Likes:

    AtomicDumpling (03-21-2013), The Operator (03-22-2013)

  9. #51
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Guelph, ON
    Posts
    16,178

    Re: With Chapman now officially back in the bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by bucksfan2 View Post
    I am holding out hope that Chapman closes the Reds 4th win in the World Series.

    The problem with bullpens is that they are inconsistent and vary from year to year. I put more faith in live arms than I do era's. If you remove Chapman from the rotation then your giving more important innings to a guy like Ondrusek. He is pushed in the 7th inning or he his the RH reliever in the 8th.
    .
    Ondrusek should be the last man used in the pen. He should be pitching roughly 0 important innings, Chapman or not.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  10. Likes:

    RedEye (03-21-2013), The Operator (03-22-2013)

  11. #52
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Brownsburg, Indiana
    Posts
    15,268

    Re: With Chapman now officially back in the bullpen

    Chapman is no lock to give anyone 200 innings of quality starting pitching. He is highly likely to give the Reds 70 dominant innings as a closer to go with a very solid rotation.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  12. Likes:

    coachpipe (03-21-2013), CougarQuest (03-23-2013), Ga_Red (03-22-2013), malcontent (03-21-2013)

  13. #53
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    8,442

    Re: With Chapman now officially back in the bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN INDY View Post
    Chapman is no lock to give anyone 200 innings of quality starting pitching. He is highly likely to give the Reds 70 dominant innings as a closer to go with a very solid rotation.
    Never claimed that. Claimed it was worth checking. Broxton, Hoover, Marshall et al. will be just fine shutting the door regardless of where Chapman pitches.
    "I’ll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. That’s just how I do things.” -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  14. #54
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    7,067

    Re: With Chapman now officially back in the bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    If Lohse signs with Cincinnati, I love this hypothetical move, as it makes both pen and rotation among the best in the league.

    If they move Chapman back to the pen for Leake, I think it's a meh move. Chapman makes the pen the best in the league and Leake's very good as a fifth starter, but Chapman's upside could have made him a true TOR guy. A meh move at best.

    On another note, how about a three-way blockbuster?

    Detroit deals Rick Porcello to Colorado, along with reliever Al Alburquerque, and prospects OF Avisail Garcia and IF/OF Nick Castellanos.
    Cincinnati deals Chapman and SS Cozart to Detroit, along with Ondrusek to Colorado.
    Colorado deals Troy Tulowitski to Cincinnati, along with $30 million

    Reds have their number two hitter for the next decade or so. As a SS.

    Choo CF
    Tulo SS
    Votto 1B
    Ludwick LF
    Bruce RF
    Phillips 3B
    Frazier 3B
    Mesigan C

    That lineup has no holes at all and each position (aside from LF) could very well have an All Star berth. That'd mean no re-signing of Choo and perhaps they'd also lose one of the starters, but, with Stephenson, Hamilton, Corcino, Cingrani, and others on the horizon, that would be a gamble I'd take, personally.
    Check out Tulo's contract: http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...html#contracts

    ........and write that trade off. LOL.

    It goes through 2020. He'll be making $20M per season starting in 2015 and thru 2019. Yikes. He'll be 34 years old during that 2019 season.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  15. #55
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Lebanon
    Posts
    7,067

    Re: With Chapman now officially back in the bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Never claimed that. Claimed it was worth checking. Broxton, Hoover, Marshall et al. will be just fine shutting the door regardless of where Chapman pitches.
    I want Hoover at Louisville in the starting rotation. He was a pretty good starter in the Braves farm system, where he started most of the time. His e.r.a. never surpassed 3.50 in his minor league days. He'd be more valuable as a starter.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  16. #56
    Member MikeThierry's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    St. Louis, Mo
    Posts
    3,703

    Re: With Chapman now officially back in the bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Check out Tulo's contract: http://www.baseball-reference.com/pl...html#contracts

    ........and write that trade off. LOL.

    It goes through 2020. He'll be making $20M per season starting in 2015 and thru 2019. Yikes. He'll be 34 years old during that 2019 season.
    I never really thought his contract was that bad in terms of how contracts are compared to other elite level players. The only thing I don't like about the contract is that you can only trade him once during the length of the contract.
    “Our next home stand follows this road trip.”

    “I just want to tell everyone Happy Easter and Happy Hanukkah.” says on the day before Easter

    Mike Shannon

  17. #57
    No half measures, Walter RedEye's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    8,442

    Re: With Chapman now officially back in the bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I want Hoover at Louisville in the starting rotation. He was a pretty good starter in the Braves farm system, where he started most of the time. His e.r.a. never surpassed 3.50 in his minor league days. He'd be more valuable as a starter.
    I don't think Hoover is needed at Louisville when we've already got Corcino and Cingrani waiting in the wings. I can't believe you would argue Hoover should be changed to a SP but not Chapman!
    "I’ll kind of have a foot on the back of my own butt. That’s just how I do things.” -- Bryan Price, 10/22/2013

  18. #58
    Member klw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New England
    Posts
    6,593

    Re: With Chapman now officially back in the bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by RedEye View Post
    Hold everything. Nothing is "official" yet about this decision.

    https://twitter.com/m_sheldon
    I am shocked, shocked I tell you that the Reds would make an announcement today with both guys going tomorrow after Leake gave up 7 (?) in his last start. Would have to imagine they would want to see how both guys are progressing before committing to anything.

  19. #59
    Future Fame of Holler WildcatFan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Lexington, KY
    Posts
    1,181

    Re: With Chapman now officially back in the bullpen

    Quote Originally Posted by cincrazy View Post
    Do we really know for sure that Chapman is built mentally and physically to pitch 200 plus innings per year plus postseason?
    Nope.

    And we never will.
    "I never argue with people who say baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn't. And that's what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

  20. #60
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Right Down Broadway
    Posts
    18,711

    Re: With Chapman now officially back in the bullpen

    Still debating Vulture's gossip?
    Can't win with 'em

    Can't win without 'em


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25