Votto shushing the crowd?

[dougdirt]

There is a difference in plunking a guy and someone getting drilled with a 90+MPH pitch. In most cases when someone is getting plunked the pitcher has taken quite a bit off the velocity of the pitch and has aimed for a meaty part of the body. I can't recall anyone ever getting "hurt" by a plunking.

Now I agree drilling a guy purposefully with a 90+MPH pitch has no place in the game. Most times I have seen a guy get hit with one of those though it was pretty obvious that it was an accident.

However, if someone does some showboating, or stands and looks at a HR too long, I totally expect him or a teammate to get "plunked" next time and I don't want that to go away.

I don't exactly have the memory that can place "purpose beanings" with dates, but if someone else does, let me know and I can look them up and see how fast the pitch was that hit him.

But, the Canada/PR brawl in the WBC this year was over a purpose beaning. 93 MPH.

I just don't get why it is acceptable to hit someone for showboating. It doesn't make sense. Don't let them succeed if you don't want them being better than you and letting someone know about it.

[George Anderson]

However, if someone does some showboating, or stands and looks at a HR too long, I totally expect him or a teammate to get "plunked" next time and I don't want that to go away.

I am curious, why does it so offend you or irritate you to see a player stand and admire a HR that you would retaliate by plunking the next batter and risk a bench clearing brawl that could result in injuries and suspensions to key players? If a batter wants to stand there and admire his HR then let him, the risk and reward of your idea of retaliation isn't worth it.

[edabbs44]

I just don't get why it is acceptable to hit someone for showboating. It doesn't make sense. Don't let them succeed if you don't want them being better than you and letting someone know about it.

I don't have much of a horse in this race however I wanted to ask your opinion on this. Where would you draw the line in this logic? Should Latos parade around the infield after every one of his 180 Ks this season? How about Hanigan taking a victory lap when he pegs someone out at second? B Hamilton (someday) calling time and holding up third base (a la Rickey) every time he steals a bag? Hey, if the catcher doesn't like getting shown up by Hamilton, maybe he should've thrown him out.

Fist pumps, smiles, a wave, clapping, sure. Taking it to the extreme is a bit much, especially when you get into showboating and showing up territory. Maybe someone shouldn't get pegged in the head but that doesn't make it alright to cross the line to disrespect.

[westofyou]

Some guys said that in 1945 about certain colored baseball players too.

Logic is not pleased with this reply

[RollyInRaleigh]

Pitchers have to throw inside to be effective and keep an advantage. Hitters crowd the plate to try and get the advantage on balls on the outer half. One guy trying to take away the other guy's bread and butter. Dog eat dog. Baseball. Sometimes it gets heated. Competition. Success. Contacts. Money. Survival. It's the game. Guys don't like being shown up with all the showboating theatrics. The hot dogging is ridiculous. Planned. Nobody minds the sheer joy coming out a little. It's the planned cocky theatrics that generate the retaliation. Act like a pro and you won't have any problems. Act like a d!@k and you'll be picking yourself up out of the dirt.

[RollyInRaleigh]

It's not like players don't understand. No secrets. Guys know the code. Cross the line and you are gonna pay.

[RollyInRaleigh]

It was always easier to hit against guys who had impeccable control than to hit against guys who were effectively a little wild, or just a little ornery. The ones that would buzz the tower and then grin or wink at you were the worst. Just letting you know that they were there. God, I miss it!

[dougdirt]

I don't have much of a horse in this race however I wanted to ask your opinion on this. Where would you draw the line in this logic? Should Latos parade around the infield after every one of his 180 Ks this season? How about Hanigan taking a victory lap when he pegs someone out at second? B Hamilton (someday) calling time and holding up third base (a la Rickey) every time he steals a bag? Hey, if the catcher doesn't like getting shown up by Hamilton, maybe he should've thrown him out.

Fist pumps, smiles, a wave, clapping, sure. Taking it to the extreme is a bit much, especially when you get into showboating and showing up territory. Maybe someone shouldn't get pegged in the head but that doesn't make it alright to cross the line to disrespect.

My response: So it isn't ok to disrespect someone, but it is ok to purposefully throw a baseball at them? Somehow that is more "respectful"?

[dougdirt]

It was always easier to hit against guys who had impeccable control than to hit against guys who were effectively a little wild, or just a little ornery. The ones that would buzz the tower and then grin or wink at you were the worst. Just letting you know that they were there. God, I miss it!

Edinson Volquez and Cliff Lee disagree with this premise.

[dougdirt]

It's not like players don't understand. No secrets. Guys know the code. Cross the line and you are gonna pay.

But WHY DO THEY HAVE TO PAY?

What makes it ok to "make someone pay"?

[RollyInRaleigh]

But WHY DO THEY HAVE TO PAY?

What makes it ok to "make someone pay"?

If you don't get it, no amount of explaining will make a difference, and I know that you don't get it.

[RollyInRaleigh]

Edinson Volquez and Cliff Lee disagree with this premise.

Most baseball people will tell you that it's easier for good hitters to hit in AAA than AA because the pitchers have better control and are not as wild. Much easier, for the most part, to dig in.

Cliff Lee is a great pitcher, with great control and good velocity, but like all great pitchers, he is not afraid to come inside and command that part of the plate. Volquez is and always has been, his own worst enemy and often cannot command the strikezone.

[George Anderson]

It's not like players don't understand. No secrets. Guys know the code. Cross the line and you are gonna pay.

But don't you think the code is kinda silly in a way Randy?

If a batter wants to stand there and admire his HR, I am not particularly fond of seeing it but I would be less fond of seeing the next batter getting plunked with a base clearing brawl and suspensions or even worse an injury occur to a star player. Like I said before the risk and rewards dont add up IMO.

I know baseball has its traditions and retaliation is definitely one of them, but I wouldn't mind seeing this tradition go by the wayside.

[dougdirt]

Most baseball people will tell you that it's easier for good hitters to hit in AAA than AA because the pitchers have better control and are not as wild. Much easier, for the most part, to dig in.

Cliff Lee is a great pitcher, with great control and good velocity, but like all great pitchers, he is not afraid to come inside and command that part of the plate. Volquez is and always has been, his own worst enemy and often cannot command the strikezone.

Well, that is because some pitchers in AA literally don't have any control at all. They can't throw it close to where they want it. You don't see those guys in the Majors.

But I want to really note that you said Cliff Lee is not afraid to come inside and command that part of the plate. Throwing on the inside corner isn't close to the same as throwing at a batter.

[RollyInRaleigh]

But don't you think the code is kinda silly in a way Randy?

If a batter wants to stand there and admire his HR, I am not particularly fond of seeing it but I would be less fond of seeing the next batter getting plunked with a base clearing brawl and suspensions or even worse an injury occur to a star player. Like I said before the risk and rewards dont add up IMO.

I know baseball has its traditions and retaliation is definitely one of them, but I wouldn't mind seeing this tradition go by the wayside.

No, I don't have a problem with it. I do have a problem with coaches who allow their players to showboat and act like idiots. It's worse now than ever and is the root of the problem. Used to be rare in amateur baseball. Conduct yourself as a pro and there is no problem. Just as in life, actions have consequences. Don't show people up and act like a jerk. Enjoy yourself but don't be an a$$. Play the game the right way and you don't have problems. My players were never allowed to show the other team up. They understood it and we never had problems. I never instructed a player to throw at another player, but I always instructed my pitchers to own the inside half.