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Thread: SIAP--ptiching rotation order?

  1. #16
    Puffy 3:16 Puffy's Avatar
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    Re: SIAP--ptiching rotation order?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    Also, can we stop acting like players don't develop because of sporadic playing time. TONS of young players get into the bigs as a back-up role player that has increased playing time based on their performance. Mes is hardly unique to the learning curve that he is being provided.
    Quoted for truth. Bolded just for the heck of it
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  3. #17
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: SIAP--ptiching rotation order?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    I don't think the potential extra 1-2 extra plate appearances during a week is going to make a material difference in the grand scheme of things. In the end, the same type of routine and preperation is going to be required when given sporadic playing time. At some point, any young player needs to at least be semi-productive with the chances they get, especially on a contending team.
    It can certainly lead to confidence. Dusty isn't going to pinch hit a guy who struggles to hit a slider against Carlos Marmol (throws 50% sliders over the past few years), but he might pinch hit a guy who seems to crush sliders. Mesoraco for example, last year hit curveballs and sinkers very well. Tossing him in as a pinch hitter against say Jake Westbrook who throws 70% sinkers/curveballs would be awfully ideal and give him a likely advantage. But that won't happen, because you can't pinch hit your back up catcher. Maybe other guys do well against their pinch hitting opponent and it gives them a little something here or there to build upon. Mesoraco doesn't get that chance. It also doesn't give him that chance of facing live pitching nearly as often. He could literally go 4 days without seeing a single at bat. That isn't ideal.

  4. #18
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: SIAP--ptiching rotation order?

    Not saying it's ideal. But the situation will change if he gets on a roll. He never did last year, and at minimum, that is mostly Mes' fault. The sporadic time certainly doesn't help, but it can't be the only excuse. Lots of talented players find a way to make it work regardless of the chance they are provided.

  5. #19
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: SIAP--ptiching rotation order?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    Not saying it's ideal. But the situation will change if he gets on a roll. He never did last year, and at minimum, that is mostly Mes' fault. The sporadic time certainly doesn't help, but it can't be the only excuse. Lots of talented players find a way to make it work regardless of the chance they are provided.
    Or his sub 200 PA's last year aren't enough of a sample size to say anything.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  6. #20
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: SIAP--ptiching rotation order?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Or his sub 200 PA's last year aren't enough of a sample size to say anything.
    Not judging anything. I'm a Mes fan.

    At the same time, hard to look at last year's stats and suggest he desrved more playing time than Hanigan who had more than a serviceable year.

    There's a difference between evaluating a player's future and analyzing what they have done to date.

    On a team contending with a reasonable catching option already in place, Mes is simply put, going to have to earn more playing time before he is handed it.

  7. #21
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: SIAP--ptiching rotation order?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    Not judging anything. I'm a Mes fan.

    At the same time, hard to look at last year's stats and suggest he desrved more playing time than Hanigan who had more than a serviceable year.

    There's a difference between evaluating a player's future and analyzing what they have done to date.

    On a team contending with a reasonable catching option already in place, Mes is simply put, going to have to earn more playing time before he is handed it.
    While I am sure there are those out there who would argue for Mesoraco to play more than Hanigan, I don't think that is exactly what is being argued here. More that his playing time should not be determined solely by who he will catch, but to have both guys catch everyone. Find a way to get both guys playing regularly and not sitting for extended periods of time (off days on the right days will also lead to Hanigan sitting for 3 days in a row).

  8. #22
    Never say Nevermore marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: SIAP--ptiching rotation order?

    I think Siap should start the season in the bullpen and only be moved to the rotation if one of the starters falters or is injured. Maybe he should even start the season in AAA--he has options.
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  10. #23
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    Re: SIAP--ptiching rotation order?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    On a team contending with a reasonable catching option already in place, Mes is simply put, going to have to earn more playing time before he is handed it.

    I'll repeat myself.

    The Reds are going to win the division by double digits no matter who catches.

    This is the perfect time to phase in a new catcher, especially one with the potential of Mes.

    This season is going to be low stress. Book it.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  11. #24
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: SIAP--ptiching rotation order?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I'll repeat myself.

    The Reds are going to win the division by double digits no matter who catches.

    This is the perfect time to phase in a new catcher, especially one with the potential of Mes.

    This season is going to be low stress. Book it.
    Baseball is way too variable to say things like that.

    Based solely on randomness, the Reds could play the calibre of baseball that would suggest they should be 10+ games ahead of the nearest team, and still lose the division/wildcards. Not to mention the risk of underperformance and injuries.

    It happens to someone all the time.

    My thought would be that the Reds wait until things are looking comfortable before they start putting winning second to developing. For a team that has won 2 playoff games since the mid 90's, I'm not taking winning for granted. It certainly hasn't seemed very easy.

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    Re: SIAP--ptiching rotation order?

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick Bateman View Post
    Baseball is way too variable to say things like that.

    Based solely on randomness, the Reds could play the calibre of baseball that would suggest they should be 10+ games ahead of the nearest team, and still lose the division/wildcards. Not to mention the risk of underperformance and injuries.

    It happens to someone all the time.

    My thought would be that the Reds wait until things are looking comfortable before they start putting winning second to developing. For a team that has won 2 playoff games since the mid 90's, I'm not taking winning for granted. It certainly hasn't seemed very easy.

    The only thing that will derail the Reds in 2013 are injuries, which you can't do anything about anyway.

    With two wild card spots, I put the odds of the Reds making the playoffs over 95%.

    I'm going with a strong opinion this time.

    Book it.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  13. #26
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: SIAP--ptiching rotation order?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I have said it before and will say it again, it is tough for anyone to have their bat "show up" sitting 3 and 4 days in a row and when you are elected to play, it isn't with any kindness shown as to which pitcher you will face who pitches to your strengths as a hitter, but rather you face who happens to be going this day because you are catching this pitcher.
    Not trying to be a jerk, but wasn't your complaint last year that Mez never played on back to back days? If he catches Homer and Leake as he did last year, it seems like you got your wish
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

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  14. #27
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: SIAP--ptiching rotation order?

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    Not trying to be a jerk, but wasn't your complaint last year that Mez never played on back to back days? If he catches Homer and Leake as he did last year, it seems like you got your wish
    Yes it was, kind of. I wanted Mesoraco to play back to back days, but I also wanted to see both guys play back to back days, as well as play semi-regularly. Keep both guys fresh, but also don't sit either guy for too long. Why not just go H-M-H-H-M-M-H-M-H-M-H-H-M-M-H-M-H-H-M-H-M-M-H-M-H-H-M-H-M-H-M-M-H-M and so on and so forth? Each guy can get regular time and regular rest. That is never going to happen with Baker though. You can do that while still keeping a 60-40 ratio of playing time.

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    Re: SIAP--ptiching rotation order?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Why not just go H-M-H-H-M-M-H-M-H-M-H-H-M-M-H-M-H-H-M-H-M-M-H-M-H-H-M-H-M-H-M-M-H-M and so on and so forth?
    Because Dusty has to manage actual human beings, not strat cards. Human beings are capricious and fragile creatures. Managing people is a quite a bit more complex than you realize.

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  17. #29
    One and a half men Patrick Bateman's Avatar
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    Re: SIAP--ptiching rotation order?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    The only thing that will derail the Reds in 2013 are injuries, which you can't do anything about anyway.

    With two wild card spots, I put the odds of the Reds making the playoffs over 95%.

    I'm going with a strong opinion this time.

    Book it.
    I think you are right about the calibre of the team. But in actuality these predictions at this level don't make sense.there aw too any variables beyond the control of talent to follow these guidelines. Booking a playoff spot before the fact in baseball is imply a disservice to the known variables that make up baseball.

    That said, I think the reds are a playoff team. But I don't want to doing anything that decrease their chances of making the playoffs because at the moment it is not in the best interests of the team.

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    Re: SIAP--ptiching rotation order?

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve4192 View Post
    Because Dusty has to manage actual human beings, not strat cards. Human beings are capricious and fragile creatures. Managing people is a quite a bit more complex than you realize.
    what are you talking about both would get = playing time


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