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Thread: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

  1. #586
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN INDY View Post
    With the way pitchers think, one bad experience can be hard to get out of your head. Catchers are way better at the big league level, but, some are better than others, defensively. It isn't unusual for a pitcher to be selfish and want the best one, or the one he has the most confidence in.
    You had better be careful calling players selfish. That doesn't sit well around here.

    But I just can't believe that most Major Leaguers are so weak minded that they let something like that get in their way from throwing their pitch. Sure, if they put Todd Frazier in the gear back there, I get being hesitant to bury a breaking ball. But guys that are actually Major League quality catchers?

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  4. #587
    Redsmetz redsmetz's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamz View Post
    It's not a slight on Hannigan, but Mesoraco is just a better player than he is with loads more potential.

    Are we going to see something similar to Rolen/Frazier of last year? Unfortunately with Dusty who knows.
    Good heavens, when are we going to see this old canard put to bed. With the Reds, Baker has stood by a considerable number of young players. With a healthy Hanigan, I haven't been surprised at the split in catching. Still Dusty has emphasized that it was important for Mez to be here learning. In your own example, Frazier was none the worse for wear waiting his time. And Zmez is stepping up big time right now.
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  6. #588
    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    A couple of interesting tidbits in a recent piece on Corky:

    http://news.cincinnati.com/article/2...nclick_check=1

    During spring, most of his exhibition game playing time was in the late innings, so he (Miller) made sure to show up early and catch bullpens with the other pitchers, just so he could be familiar with them if he did come up to Cincinnati.

    “It’s more for me as well as them. I want them to be OK with me catching,” Miller said. “I try to make sure they’re comfortable in throwing to me.”

    LeCure says there’s a trust from Reds pitchers that Miller has earned, something that doesn’t come easily.
    There’s also a level of trust between Miller and Mesoraco, a young catcher who has spent plenty of time with Miller both in Louisville and spring training. Even before Miller was called up, Mesoraco called Miller for a quick scouting report on Tony Cingrani, who was called up last week to start for the injured Johnny Cueto.

    “I think he’s helped me by being there to talk about pitch sequences and things he sees in my game,” Mesoraco said. “I try to bounce ideas off of him about things I should be trying to do or be thinking about in certain situations. He’s always available and gives me good advice.

    Those discussions are only bound to increase, as Miller is staying at Mesoraco’s apartment while he’s with the Reds -- and serving as his chauffeur, with Miller not having his car in Cincinnati.

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  8. #589
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Certainly it is a small sample size, but if Mesoraco were some poor game caller or catcher and was making some kind of difference with the pitchers, those numbers wouldn't be there.

    Being able to call a game isn't a skillset that is going to go from good to bad in a sample size. Being able to catch a game isn't going to go from good to bad in a sample size. Either it is or it isn't there.
    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I am not arguing that Mesoraco's numbers are anything. I am arguing that the pitchers are darn good regardless of who is back there between the Reds catching options because both guys are Major League quality catchers.

    In the above quote, you say very specifically that if Mesoraco were a poor game caller, the pitchers' numbers would not be there in one week's sample. Clearly, you are arguing the numbers are something.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  9. #590
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Thanks for that klw. Interesting read.

  10. #591
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    In the above quote, you say very specifically that if Mesoraco were a poor game caller, the pitchers' numbers would not be there in one week's sample. Clearly, you are arguing the numbers are something.
    I am saying if he sucked so bad that he shouldn't catch in the Majors, the numbers would reflect that. But since they don't, we should really stop fretting over who is behind the dish for this team.

  11. #592
    Member RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I didn't say that. I am saying that the sample size isn't likely needed to be large to determine if the skill is there or not.
    I think what you may mean to say is in not whether or not there is a skill. It's whether there is a difference in how skilled the two guys are, the magnitude of that difference and the degree to which the difference shows up in the performance of pitchers in a small sample.

    It's like BABIP. Professional catchers are immensely skilled. It's just that, at the major league level, the differences among them are pretty small and the connection between the skill and results is really noisy.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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  13. #593
    Battle Toad Historian thatcoolguy_22's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    In the above quote, you say very specifically that if Mesoraco were a poor game caller, the pitchers' numbers would not be there in one week's sample. Clearly, you are arguing the numbers are something.
    The first quote was also taken out of context. Somewhere around the middle of this thread posters were jumping on Leake's and Homer's first couple bad outings as proof of Meso's lack of game calling. The initial argument on Meso's side was, he catches the weaker pitchers, of course his catcher era would look worse than hannigans. Then after Mesoraco caught a weeks worth of games with the better pitchers, it was obvious that the first few bad starts wasn't really his fault. He caught better pitchers. Not really saying the numbers mean anything, just that its not his fault that Homer couldn't throw a fastball for a strike or Leake was leaving pitches up in the zone.

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    Member RollyInRaleigh's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    You had better be careful calling players selfish. That doesn't sit well around here.

    But I just can't believe that most Major Leaguers are so weak minded that they let something like that get in their way from throwing their pitch. Sure, if they put Todd Frazier in the gear back there, I get being hesitant to bury a breaking ball. But guys that are actually Major League quality catchers?
    Most really great ballplayers are somewhat selfish and into themselves. No. most are a lot into themselves. Nothing to see there. Doesn't mean they don't want to be into the team. Self pride and motivation is a quality that most of those guys have. They care, immensely, about their individual stat line as it measures them. If it doesn't sit well around here, it's because those people have not been around many ballplayers.

  15. #595
    I rig polls REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Well, it's awesome to see Mez making the most of his opportunity now
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  17. #596
    Member NebraskaRed's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Any update on Hanigan? Or Cueto for that matter

  18. #597
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Mez starts catching every game and our offense goes in the clunker. Geez. When is Hanigan back?

    Time to start laughing about this.

    What we should be concerned about is the offense suddenly going cold while we have these outstanding starting pitching performances.

  19. #598
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    What we should be concerned about is the offense suddenly going cold while we have these outstanding starting pitching performances.
    How long have you been following baseball?

    I assume you know by now, if it's been a while, that slumps happen to every team in every season... usually at least a few times a year; even to the best offenses.

    For some reason, though, people freak out everytime it happens.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  20. #599
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutus View Post
    How long have you been following baseball?
    I just started today. What are those big hands the players wear when they're out in that grassy area?

    I assume you know by now, if it's been a while, that slumps happen to every team in every season... usually at least a few times a year; even to the best offenses.

    For some reason, though, people freak out everytime it happens.
    Dude, just venting my frustration. I'm nearly 50 years old and have seen about everything. It's frustrating to watch a team get "hot" on the mound and go "cold" at the plate. And when they get "hot" at the plate, they seem to go "cold" on the mound.

    I think we can all agree it's the most fun when they're "hot" at the plate and the mound!

  21. #600
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    I just started today. What are those big hands the players wear when they're out in that grassy area?



    Dude, just venting my frustration. I'm nearly 50 years old and have seen about everything. It's frustrating to watch a team get "hot" on the mound and go "cold" at the plate. And when they get "hot" at the plate, they seem to go "cold" on the mound.

    I think we can all agree it's the most fun when they're "hot" at the plate and the mound!
    See, that's the problem. These message boards weren't meant for venting. They were meant for discussion. It's hard to have discussions with people when they're simply venting out of frustration. Those people aren't posting things that are rational or logical if they're just venting.

    Venting doesn't really promote healthy discussions. If people want to vent, I'd suggest they find a punching bag to take it out on
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

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