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Thread: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

  1. #211
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    Are you discounting the notion that Inge was the "majority" catcher the first two months of the season? I don't even expect the Reds to have done that with Devin.

    For what ever reason, Inge was the main man for 2 months (and this is the big leagues, if he had produced he would have stuck). That is not equivalent to Mes.
    He was the majority catcher in April and the first weeks of May because of other Tiger injuries. He then became the backup starting 2/5 (or so) of the time. (He also entered games late as a PR for Fick or as a defensive caddy. These times he played-- with few or no ABs-- were safe, IMO, to ignore as extended PH or as something separate from the catching duties we were discussing.)

    Through June, Inge played in 58 of 71 games. However, he only pinch ran or pinch hit then caught (as part of a double switch or as a defensive replacement) in 14 of those games. That brings his seemingly lead catcher duties down to 44 of 71. That 3 out of 5 and would be categorized as a catcher receiving more time than Mesoraco; however, he also either left early and came on late in another 17 games, cutting his catching chores to the point where he was comparable to Mesoraco.

    Inge, like Mesoraco, had sporadic playing time. The difference is that Inge's playing time was sporadic within the game (he might play the entire 9, he might be pulled, he might be asked to pinch run, he might be asked to play the last half or few innings of a game). (And I'd argue that pulling a kid in the middle of a game would do more harm to his psyche as a hitter than holding him out entirely.)
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  3. #212
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    And let's be reasonable, there are few players who you can adequately comp Mes to. He was the 16th ranked prospect overall.

    But to have such a highly ranked guy running his service clock but only starting around 30 percent of the time seems to be a waste.

    I can understand wanting Hanigan to play instead...then shop Mes around as he is/was highly valuable. Get a LF prospect or something.

    I just don't think him riding the bench for 2+ years in Cincy is prudent.
    If a player isn't ranked in the top two or three, it's all guesswork.

    If Mesoraco is indeed a good hitter/ prospect, he'll show it. If not, the experts were wrong about his ranking. It's not the Reds nor Dusty Baker that deserve rebuke for Mesoraco, but Mesoraco himself. And, when/ if he does hit, Mesoraco will deserve the praise.

    And I reject the idea that it's a waste to have Mesoraco in the big leagues as the weak sister side of a platoon. If Mesoraco learns from Hanigan (and he could do just that) and becomes a quality gloveman, it was worth the time he spent as a backup.

    If the Reds win the NL Central (again) and Mesoraco plays a positive role in them doing so, it was worth it.

    The main focus should be on winning, not on player development or on deals you might be able to make. Mesoraco, the Reds believe, will help the Reds win in 2013, but not as much as Hanigan will.

    If they don't win, perhaps you can then point fingers. But, last season, they won and Hanigan had a great season. So they were right. This season? I guess we'll see.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
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  5. #213
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Reds really don't have a quality catcher in their system. Hanigan is tending downward offensively, and this likely is his last year as the main Starting catcher.

    Mes is still young, and even if this year is a waste, he can be the main starting catcher for at least the next four years, longer if the Reds can sign him to an extension, which these days is becoming easier and easier to do.

    Heck, even if the Reds keep Hanigan until he's a free agent at the end of 2014, that means 3 years of Mes as the starting catcher. The Reds are going to need him then.
    This was the point I was going to make. I really like Hanigan and he calls a great game and is good defensively. But his stick doesn't have a lot of pop and he's a 32 yr. old catcher and I don't know how much longer he's going to be able to be a #1 guy.

    Sometimes you have to put up with a situation that isn't optimal and I think the Reds are in the middle of one now. Hanigan has a great feel for the game and he's gotten every ounce of performance out of his ability. But his margin of error is slim. Mes is the Reds' catcher of the future and that future isn't far off. He doesn't have much left to prove in the minors.

    I think he knows that he didn't make a good impression with the high brass in 2012. I wish I had a link, but I heard a Hot Stove League where Marty was highly praising Mes for his work ethic this spring and how much he's improved and has worked on his game. I think Meseraco knows the time is now and he very much needs to make an impression during whatever PT he gets. I think once that cycle starts, he'll get moved into the #1 catcher. I woudn't be surprised if that is this year some time.

    Pay attention to the open sky

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    Mesoraco - should the Reds find a way to use him as PH?

    I would like to see Mesoraco also used as a pinch hitter. It would give him more at bats, and he projects as a good bat with power. I understand the problem is if he's used in that capacity then the Reds are left without a backup catcher, but I'm wondering if there isn't someway to make this work. Who is the emergency catcher now, if there is one, and would it be a worthwhile gamble to PH with Mesoraco - or do you think the Reds would need a 3rd catcher on the bench to do this?

  7. #215
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    Re: Mesoraco - should the Reds find a way to use him as PH?

    I would use him as a PH without worrying about it too much. Maybe hedge my bet and only use him if runners are already on. How often does it backfire by using your catcher? At most it would only cost you that particular game if you PH Mes and Hanigan was injured later. I would guess the upside of using Mes to hit over the course of the season would greatly outweigh the potential downside.

  8. #216
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco - should the Reds find a way to use him as PH?

    If Hanny continues his current ineptitude at the plate, Mes is going to get lots of chances to start.

    Yes, it's early, but Hanigan's been trending down offensively for some time now.

    I like that Mes is here rather than playing everyday in Louisville; obviously the pitchers love throwing to Hanigan, and this gives both Hanigan and Mesoraco a chance to put their heads together and figure out how to get the pitchers more comfortable with Mes. I have no doubt that Ryan would/is helping Mes make this adjustment as much as possible.

  9. #217
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    Re: Mesoraco - should the Reds find a way to use him as PH?

    Baker is Hanigan's biggest fan. I think he'll play regardless due to handling of pitching staff and defensive abilities despite not being able to hit with an ironing board.

  10. #218
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    Re: Mesoraco - should the Reds find a way to use him as PH?

    Hannahan is the emergency catcher. I'd like to see Mes get more starts.

    I don't see the point of using him much as a pinch hitter. Against righties, it's Paul and Hannahan.

    I guess against a lefty late in the game, though, Mes would be a decent idea. Reds bench is weaker in terms of RHH, both Izturis and Robinson switch hit, neither is a great hitter.

    Wouldn't get carried away with this idea, though, wouldn't constantly burn the back up catcher. Mes needs playing time, but he isn't a special pinch hitter to my knowledge, and it's not the area in which I would develop him.
    Last edited by Kc61; 04-09-2013 at 12:30 PM.

  11. #219
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    Re: Mesoraco - should the Reds find a way to use him as PH?

    Mes is currently averaging 1 PA per game.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  12. #220
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Lineup out.... no Mesoraco again. 8 games. 1 start.

  13. #221
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Lineup out.... no Mesoraco again. 8 games. 1 start.
    Is Dusty seriously going to go with an 80/20 split? That's a terrible idea for both catchers on our roster.
    Award Winning Baseball Player

  14. #222
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by bigredmechanism View Post
    Is Dusty seriously going to go with an 80/20 split? That's a terrible idea for both catchers on our roster.
    I'm sure the off day tomorrow is factoring into it, but this is getting criminal. Hanigan is going to be run down by the all-star break.
    "Last week I helped my friend stay put. It's a lot easier'n helpin' 'em move. I just went over to his house and made sure that he did not start to load **** into a truck."

  15. #223
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Hanigan has a rope to hang himself with.... his bat.

    .217 OPS won't carry him far

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  17. #224
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by thatcoolguy_22 View Post
    I'm sure the off day tomorrow is factoring into it, but this is getting criminal. Hanigan is going to be run down by the all-star break.
    Reds and Cards play tomorrow afternoon, so no off day tomorrow.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  18. #225
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    Reds and Cards play tomorrow afternoon, so no off day tomorrow.
    A little surprising. Dusty has established that he wants Homer to pitch to Hanigan, and Homer is pitching tomorrow. That means Hanigan is likely to pitch tonight and tomorrow -- a day game after a night game. I would have guessed Mes might go tonight. Tells me maybe Arroyo prefers Hanigan also.

    If none of the starters like pitching to Mes, that's a problem. If Dusty is just reluctant to play Mes, that's a problem; not because of the impact on the big club, but because Mes should be playing in Louisville. I usually think all the Dusty-bashing and calls for young guys to play are misplaced, but this is emerging as something to watch pretty closely.


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