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Thread: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

  1. #466
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    If he becomes an actual huge offensive liability he won't play in a huge majority of the games.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

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  3. #467
    Et tu, Brutus? Brutus's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Plus Plus View Post
    A 3-year trend of offensive decline and a WAR based off of +11.2 FLD from Fangraphs in the year that you are discussing (where his wOBA was .305) doesn't need 37 PAs to support it, IMO. His offensive value in 2012 from the same site was -5.6, meaning almost his entire value as a player in this 2.7 WAR season came from the defensive side of the game, where we (think we) know that multiple years are needed to get *real* information about a player's defensive profile.

    I'm not advocating releasing Hanigan, playing Mesoraco 80% of the time, or anything like that, but I think that playing a guy who is a potential offensive liability in a huge majority of games is a bad plan, given who is behind him.
    He'd also never had more than 304 plate appearances in a season until last year. What you call a "trend" could just as easily be called random fluctuation from lack of a larger dataset in any given year.
    "No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference." ~Tommy Lasorda

  4. #468
    Member RadfordVA's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    The Reds do know more about Mesoraco than what is shown in regular season games though. They wouldn't need to give me 8 at bats in 3 days to know they prefer Hanigan over me. They have every single bit of information one could have to make the decision and right now they feel Hanigan is the better player. They have to make decisions based on small samples all the time. They can't give proper MLB trials to every player that has played well in minor leagues. Especially when trying to win.There is always the possibility that they have never been as high on Devin(other than the draft) as the media. It isn't like they have gave him some extension to show outward belief in him.

    They have every single bit of information one could have to make the decision and right now they feel Hanigan is the better player. If this continues for much longer they will revisit that decision. Hopefully Mesoraco is better than Hanigan. Every day that goes by I feel the Reds are not sure that will be the case.

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  6. #469
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by RadfordVA View Post
    The Reds do know more about Mesoraco than what is shown in regular season games though. They wouldn't need to give me 8 at bats in 3 days to know they prefer Hanigan over me. They have every single bit of information one could have to make the decision and right now they feel Hanigan is the better player. They have to make decisions based on small samples all the time. They can't give proper MLB trials to every player that has played well in minor leagues. Especially when trying to win.There is always the possibility that they have never been as high on Devin(other than the draft) as the media. It isn't like they have gave him some extension to show outward belief in him.

    They have every single bit of information one could have to make the decision and right now they feel Hanigan is the better player. If this continues for much longer they will revisit that decision. Hopefully Mesoraco is better than Hanigan. Every day that goes by I feel the Reds are not sure that will be the case.
    I still contend that there is a disconnect between what the Front Office wants and what Dusty is doing. Chapman as a reliever/starter. For two years, Walt and Price said "starter". For those same two years, Dusty said "reliever" at every chance he could. A week before the move was made to the closer spot, Walt and Price both still said starter.

    Walt brings up the top catching prospect in the game. He has under 200 at bats in a season+ now and he hasn't started 3 games in a row in his life. That couldn't have possibly have been the front office plan for their #1 prospect.

    Walt signed a guy a few years ago to be a utility player. Dusty only played him at shortstop (I can't remember who the player was).

    Dusty Baker sits Mesoraco for all of September last year. Says all spring how much he has improved both at the plate and behind it. Turns around and plays him less than he did the year before, all while the guy he is playing more is in a slump to end all slumps.

  7. #470
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Last season Mesoraco never got 8 at bats in 3 days.

    Hardly anyone is going to show something in a scenario like that.

    Mesoraco has hit well this year. The hits aren't reflected, but I think we can all agree he is hitting the ball with absolute authority thus far can't we? Hanigan, I think we can all agree, hasn't hit the ball at all this year right?

    So if now isn't the time in which you can get Mesoraco a start or three in a row, when is ever going to be the time to try and do it?
    In June 14 Devin went 1-4. On June 16 he went 1-4 again.

  8. #471
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    In June 14 Devin went 1-4. On June 16 he went 1-4 again.
    Totally in my face. Maybe I meant to say back to back days. Or more than 8 at bats in a 3 day span.

  9. #472
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I still contend that there is a disconnect between what the Front Office wants and what Dusty is doing.
    This is entirely possible. Would be way too brash of a move in my opinion for Baker to pull but possible and I am sure it happens in some form or the other across the league. I would hope that Baker and Jocketty discussed exactly what the plan was with Mesoraco when decision time came at end of Spring Training. If there was disagreement it should have been taken care of that time. If Jocketty had a problem with Mesoraco only starting at current rate he should have stuck him in Triple A to get regular at bats and build up trade value if nothing else.

  10. #473
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Walt signed a guy a few years ago to be a utility player. Dusty only played him at shortstop (I can't remember who the player was).
    That would be Edgar Renteria.
    Zero chance the Reds miss the playoffs!

  11. #474
    Arbiter of Good Taste OGB's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    I don't want to be a jump to conclusions guy, but with the gem Homer's throwing tonight, why on earth would you mess with anything? I've been an advocate of Mes playing more, too.

    8 IP 2H 0BB 10K
    That's one of the best starts in all of baseball this year, and it's not against Houston.
    I may not be fast, but I sure am slow.

  12. #475
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by OGB View Post
    I don't want to be a jump to conclusions guy, but with the gem Homer's throwing tonight, why on earth would you mess with anything? I've been an advocate of Mes playing more, too.

    8 IP 2H 0BB 10K
    That's one of the best starts in all of baseball this year, and it's not against Houston.
    Probably because Ryan Hanigan had nothing to do at all with what Bailey did tonight.

    Bailey was the guy out there throwing 93-97 all night long. He was the guy not missing his spots. He was the guy throwing two breaking balls in the zone and the guy burying his splitter in the dirt. Ryan Hanigan had a hit, a weak ground out and an infield fly ball.

  13. #476
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Probably because Ryan Hanigan had nothing to do at all with what Bailey did tonight.
    That's a real strong statement.

  14. #477
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    That's a real strong statement.
    Ryan Hanigan does not throw the baseball to the plate. I guess Hanigan did throw out Chase Utley, but Utley looked safe to me. So Hanigan did something.

  15. #478
    Member RadfordVA's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Ryan Hanigan does not throw the baseball to the plate. I guess Hanigan did throw out Chase Utley, but Utley looked safe to me. So Hanigan did something.
    It doesn't bother you at all that Bailey and pretty much every pitcher would disagree with your opinion? These guys are not complete idiots and have some knowledge about baseball. Which is what they would have to be if a catcher has no impact.

  16. #479
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Ryan Hanigan does not throw the baseball to the plate. I guess Hanigan did throw out Chase Utley, but Utley looked safe to me. So Hanigan did something.
    It isn't just throwing the ball to the plate. You know that.

  17. #480
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Wasn't there a thread in the offseason that the pitches come from the dugout?
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.


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