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Thread: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

  1. #496
    Member RadfordVA's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Probably because Ryan Hanigan had nothing to do at all with what Bailey did tonight.
    The catcher has a very, very small amount of input on the performance of the game as long as the catcher is actually of Major League caliber.
    Is your opinion that he has nothing to do with performance at all or very little? Those are two very different opinions.

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  3. #497
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by RadfordVA View Post
    Is your opinion that he has nothing to do with performance at all or very little? Those are two very different opinions.
    Very little. 5%, tops.

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  5. #498
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    I guess if Hanigan gets credit for Bailey's start last night then it's only fair to bash him for blowing that 5-0 lead in the 7th inning Sunday. Dang you, Hanigan!
    I miss Adam Dunn.

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  7. #499
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Chip R View Post
    It also used to be in Homer's head - as recently as last year - that he couldn't pitch well in GABP.
    I hear Hanigan helped him get over it.

    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  8. #500
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    I still contend that there is a disconnect between what the Front Office wants and what Dusty is doing. Chapman as a reliever/starter. For two years, Walt and Price said "starter". For those same two years, Dusty said "reliever" at every chance he could. A week before the move was made to the closer spot, Walt and Price both still said starter.
    The big thing to note is that this spring, Chapman said "reliever".
    That kind of changes things, IMO.
    If Chapman's heart is not into being a starter, it seems reasonable to abandon the experiment.

    You actually have a valid point about Mez. I think he could be given more playing time than he has been, but I kind of doubt there's a disconnect between Walt and Dusty. I guess my point is.. As far as we know, Walt might be on board with Mez's playing time.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  9. #501
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by REDREAD View Post
    The big thing to note is that this spring, Chapman said "reliever".
    That kind of changes things, IMO.
    If Chapman's heart is not into being a starter, it seems reasonable to abandon the experiment.
    You don't think that Walt, Dusty and Price all talked to Chapman before the media did about his role and what he wanted?

  10. #502
    Member RadfordVA's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Very little. 5%, tops.
    That I can understand. The no impact whatsoever is what I found going too far. I would say a little more than that but less than what some pitchers believe. I believe it is also going to vary greatly from pitcher to pitcher like some others have said. A lot of it being mental, which is not to discount the effect it can have. People are funny and sometimes their minds can either hurt performance or boost it.

  11. #503
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    When pitchers and managers go on record as saying who catches a game makes a big difference, I'll take them at their word. Maybe there aren't stats to quantify it, but they play the game at the highest level. We don't, and 99% of baseball analysts never have. That counts for something if you ask me. I would love to see Mes get more playing time, but I don't think we should underestimate Hanigan's game-calling ability or his presence behind the plate.

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  13. #504
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    You don't think that Walt, Dusty and Price all talked to Chapman before the media did about his role and what he wanted?
    People change.
    I didn't follow Chapman in spring as closely as many did.

    But I guess I can see two possiblities:
    1. Chapman tried starting, prefered relieving.. He either was quiet about it for awhile, or changed his mind.
    2. The Reds decided that Chapman was either ill prepared to start this year or his secondary pitches had regressed to the point where the experiment was doomed. They give a vague answer about why the experiment was abandoned in order to avoid badmouthing Chapman.

    I think that's a lot more likely than an internal fight over Chapman.

    Now Price sees a talented arm, and wants to harness it into a starter, regardless of the rough patches Chapman would go through.. He's a coach, this is a great project. He sees a potential HOFer.. yet at the same time, he can see the advantage of status quo for 2013. There's many times in life when people don't get their way, yet they can understand the reasons why.
    Heck, the team has pretty good starting depth with Leake and Cingrani, that's a pretty good reason to leave Chapman in the pen, because there's no guarantee that Chapman would've outperformed either of them this year.

    I guess I find it hard to believe that Dusty and Walt are that disconnected? I'm sure they have strong opinions and don't always get their way, but I think in the end, they come to a consensus.
    Thank you Walt and Bob for going for it in 2010-2014!

    Nov. 13, 2007: One of the greatest days in Reds history: John Allen gets the boot!

  14. #505
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Very little. 5%, tops.
    Is this 5% in reference to the pitcher's peformance? Or the team as a whole? If it's 5% in reference to the pitcher, then it's less on the team as a whole?
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  15. #506
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Very little. 5%, tops.
    I have to disagree here Doug. Hannigan is a video fanatic... he knows the swing tendancies, hot and cold zones, strengths and weaknesses of every single hitter in the league, especially the day he faces them. The night before he is watching video of the batters he will face the next day and checking to see the latest modifications they have made.

    The less a pitcher has to think about while on the mound, the better. Hannigan does so much research that the pitchers know that if they execute the pitches he calls for, they have the best chance of success.

    The reason Tampa Bay has continually tried to trade for Hannigan is because they credit a lot of their organizational success to video preparation and I believe he does it more and better than any catcher in the league. I have heard that he blows the scouts away with his in depth preparation for every batter. Name an NL hitter and a situation, say 1-2, runner on second, and he can tell you what the guy's swing tendancies are, what that batter will be looking for, and the best pitch to fool him, depending on the Reds pitcher on the mound. The simplest way to say this is that Hannigan is to catchers what Votto is to hitters. He does not necessarily have more inate skills... he simply out prepares and outthinks the opposition.

    I believe that the reason the pitchers like to request hannigan is because they know of his preparation and trust his judgment. I think that the only time they shake him off is when they have a physical problem that will prevent them from executing what he asked for.

    Nothing is more disheartening for a pitcher than to repeatedly execute the pitch that was asked for and watch it fly by. Hannigan has earned the trust that this is seldom going to happen. Thus the pitchers trust him and they trust their stuff.

    I believe that if you ask Arroyo, he will confess that his sustained success is due primarily to Hannigan. I do not know if the stats back this up, but to a pitcher like bronson, perception is reality.

    For whatever reason, Mes has not earned that respect yet.

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  17. #507
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by OnBaseMachine View Post
    I guess if Hanigan gets credit for Bailey's start last night then it's only fair to bash him for blowing that 5-0 lead in the 7th inning Sunday. Dang you, Hanigan!
    Simply not true, and you can ask bailey and he will tell you the same thing. he wil say that the reason for blowing the lead was he was not able to execute the pitches hannigan asked for.

    Hannigan's support for his pitcher is like a hitter who is told the type and location of a pitch in advance. Even with the data, it still depends on the hitter to properly execute the swing.

  18. #508
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Very little. 5%, tops.
    In a game of inches, 5% can be a huge difference

  19. #509
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    In a game of inches, 5% can be a huge difference
    Or it could be absolutely nothing.

  20. #510
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Brisco View Post
    The less a pitcher has to think about while on the mound, the better. Hannigan does so much research that the pitchers know that if they execute the pitches he calls for, they have the best chance of success.
    Then let Hanigan call the pitches from the dugout for Mes.

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