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Thread: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

  1. #511
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Or it could be absolutely nothing.
    To suggest that catching in the MLB is a throw away position shows minimal knowledge of how the game is played on the field level.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

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  4. #512
    Sprinkles are for winners dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    To suggest that catching in the MLB is a throw away position shows minimal knowledge of how the game is played on the field level.
    The post you quoted was merely me saying that in a given game, it may never once come into play. If a catcher "steals" a strike with a nice frame job but the next pitch goes for a home run, did that strike stolen matter? It certainly counts as value added in sabermetrics, but in reality, it was not of any value in that scenario. That is all I was really trying to say, I just didn't expand on it.

    It isn't a throw away position. But I think people get too caught up in some magical things that the catcher does to alter the game. Just like any other position, there are varying degrees of ability at the position. Hanigan is near the top behind the plate.

    Where the difference comes in, is that I don't believe he is doing something that most other Major League catchers can't come awful close to replicating behind the plate when it comes to what the pitcher does on the mound.

    I fully believe that there used to be a much larger variance from catcher to catcher. But in a day and age where you or I can get insanely advanced scouting reports on a hitter in a few minutes or watch hours of video on a single hitter, I feel those days have gone by because there is so much information out there now that used to really only be available by actually being around the league to see everyone.

    So where it comes down to for me, is pitch framing, blocking the ball and controlling the running game.

    Pitch framing, Hanigan is better, but in limited action last year, Mesoraco actually rated out slightly above-average himself. Blocking pitches is something that both guys also rated out as above-average in last season. Controlling the running game is more than just the catcher. For example, Hanigan catches Cueto. Cueto keeps runners incredibly close because he has insanely quick feet/quick move, so guys can't take big chances on him. When guys do run on him, it gives Hanigan an advantage versus trying to catch a guy without a good move because runners can get an extra step or step and a half. So we are really worrying about two things here: Pop times and accuracy with the throws.

    Pop Time wise, both guys are in that 1.85-1.95 range, which is well above-average for a Major League catcher. So we are a wash there really. Accuracy? I honestly don't know. You can judge that one.

    At the end of the day, I just feel that while Hanigan is better behind the plate, that it isn't by a whole lot due to the things I laid out above.
    Last edited by dougdirt; 04-17-2013 at 06:35 PM.

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  6. #513
    Member membengal's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Mesaraco is pitching a gem tonight, and hitting well too...

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    New Fever (04-18-2013),thatcoolguy_22 (04-17-2013)

  8. #514
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Even if Hanigan is the best catcher in baseball at calling a game... if Mes keeps playing like this, he deserves AT LEAST half of the time behind the plate.

  9. #515
    Be the ball Roy Tucker's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    When Mes plays as he is tonight, that will start to happen.
    She used to wake me up with coffee ever morning

  10. #516
    nothing more than a fan Always Red's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy Tucker View Post
    When Mes plays as he is tonight, that will start to happen.
    Mes hit two pitches tonight harder than Hanny has in the last half year.

    This is a good problem for my Redlegs.

  11. #517
    Member cincrazy's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    If Mes can earn regular playing time and continue to mature as a hitter, he may help replace some of Ludwick's lost production.

  12. #518
    Burn It Jamz's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Mesoraco's bat plays. He's very good at the plate. If Hannigan can guide him and mould him behind the plate he could become a very special catcher in this league.
    I see great things in baseball. It's our game.

  13. #519
    rest in power, king Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Time to give him starts I think. He seems to always work well with Leake, make him his catcher. Split Cueto's and Latos' starts. He's looking good, showing a good swing, I think he's earned time to get it in a groove.

  14. #520
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    He should at least start tomorrow.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter View Post
    A little bit off topic, but do you guys think that Jesse Winker profiles more like Pete Rose or is he just the next Hal Morris??

  15. #521
    rest in power, king Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by reds44 View Post
    He should at least start tomorrow.
    Tough call. I'm inclined to agree for Mes, but at the same time I think Cingrani would be well served to get Hanigan for his first start. But then again, Mes handled our worst pitcher pretty well tonight.

    Tricky. Too bad Mes can't play 1B to give Votto a break now and then.

  16. #522
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    time for Mes to start getting at least half the starts, his talent is miles beyond Hanigan especially when hanigan is a black hole in the lineup

  17. #523
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Maker_84 View Post
    time for Mes to start getting at least half the starts, his talent is miles beyond Hanigan especially when hanigan is a black hole in the lineup
    He's earning that after tonight's game.

  18. #524
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    In the baseball "what have you done for me lately" business, if you perform, you will play. If mez continues to hit and improve his D then he will force the issue.

  19. #525
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by holster10 View Post
    In the baseball "what have you done for me lately" business, if you perform, you will play. If mez continues to hit and improve his D then he will force the issue.
    How many times has a hitter gone 3 for 5 or 4 for 5 and Dusty sat him the next day? Seems like a lot.

    Almost like Dusty thinks he wore himself out on the basepaths and needs a rest.


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