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Thread: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

  1. #76
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post

    I don't think it is ever wise in this game to say "for this position, I want the best defensive guy you can run out there." Then you get Ray Oyler playing shortstop for you. Who wants that?

    .
    True but catching is different than other positions. Being a great catcher is not just about having a good arm or being able to block pitches in the dirt. Its about handling a pitching staff and running a game. Hanigan is special in this regard, its why hes going to be a good manager some day. Its totally different than having a shortstop who can go in the hole or who has a great arm.

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  4. #77
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Folks also have to realize that Hanigan's hitting has diminished. His OPS the last three years were .834, .714, .703. His power has declined.

    People also have to realize that Hanigan hits lefties way better than righties. Lifetime split is .822 v. .701. Last year his OPS against righties was .661.

    I'm a big fan of Hanigan, but the trend on his hitting isn't very good. If Mes shows hitting ability at the major league level, the differential could be large.

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  6. #78
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutaman View Post
    True but catching is different than other positions. Being a great catcher is not just about having a good arm or being able to block pitches in the dirt. Its about handling a pitching staff and running a game. Hanigan is special in this regard, its why hes going to be a good manager some day. Its totally different than having a shortstop who can go in the hole or who has a great arm.
    Hanigan appears to be very good at handling a pitching staff. How much that makes the Reds a better team is certainly a debatable. For example, if Ryan Hanigan had the dark years pitching staff to work with, this discussion would not even be taking place. Also, Bryan Price is a part of the equation. If we had a meh pitching coach, Hanigan might also not appear to be the superb handler of the pitching staff that he is credited for.

    All in all, I think the Reds have a pretty good situation. They have a great mentor for the guy who is tabbed as the future, who has a lot of room for improvement in the mentor's area of expertise. When the transition is completely made will come down to Mes breaking through with his bat. I think that is the main point that started this stimulating discussion.
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  7. #79
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by M2 View Post
    Mike Stanley was a horrible catcher. Not just bad, horrible. And Girardi lost his starting job to good hitting, modest fielding Jorge Posada in 1998 (and the Yankees went on to become a dynasty).
    "bad" "horrible" are subjective words. Can't dispute them one way or another. Obviously the Red Sox, didn't think he was horrible because they paid him a zillion dollars as a free agent. And one of the reasons Posada, who's intelligence and ability to handle a staff has always been under rated, was because Girardi was there to mentor him. Posada has said this on many occassions. In any event, if Mes is anywhere near the player Posada was I'm all for getting him in more.

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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutaman View Post
    "bad" "horrible" are subjective words. Can't dispute them one way or another. Obviously the Red Sox, didn't think he was horrible because they paid him a zillion dollars as a free agent. And one of the reasons Posada, who's intelligence and ability to handle a staff has always been under rated, was because Girardi was there to mentor him. Posada has said this on many occassions. In any event, if Mes is anywhere near the player Posada was I'm all for getting him in more.
    There was nothing subjective about the putridity of late model Mike Stanley's catching. The Sox took a gamble they could stick him behind the plate, got burned and he was done at the position in 1997. At the end of his catching years he couldn't throw and he knees were so bad he could barely stay in a squatting position.

    And Hanigan is there to mentor Mes. The point still stands, Posada took over from Girardi under extremely similar circumstances. The kid had the bat and his defense was good enough. When Posada was ready, Torre didn't hesitate to play him.
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  9. #81
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Catcher Miguel Olivo has asked for and been granted his release by the Reds, reports Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com (via Twitter). It was previously reported that Olivo was mulling whether to accept a $100k bonus and report to Triple-A, or instead test the market. Olivo could be an option for the Marlins, writes Joe Frisaro of MLB.com.

  10. #82
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    He signed with the Marlins.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

  11. #83
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    It is about both sides of the ball. Corky Miller is 16 years into his minor league career because both sides matter. Mike Piazza caught for a very long time because both sides matter.
    Or for a big league example, Brad Ausmus, he of the 18 year career and .669 OPS.
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  12. #84
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    I doubt anyone believes in this philosophy, at least I don't. I think Hanigan's bat is strong enough that he isn't a black hole in the lineup. Heck, some here wanted him batting second last season.

    I have nothing against Mes and I agree with those who say he is the future, but I'm just not ready to anoint him as the main catcher and dismissing what Hanigan still brings to the table. I just don't believe he is there yet. ST has been a big plus for him, but it's still just ST. He'll get his opportunities and I hope he takes advantage of them. It'll be a good "problem" to have.
    I don't think you'll find anyone in this thread ready to "anoint" him, just people saying they think Mes should begin to get the majority of the starts once he starts to emerge as an elite offensive catcher.
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by OGB View Post
    I don't think you'll find anyone in this thread ready to "anoint" him, just people saying they think Mes should begin to get the majority of the starts once he starts to emerge as an elite offensive catcher.
    Wouldn't that be anointing him as starter/ main cog in the catching tandem?

    And I'd argue that the majority of posters on Redszone want to do just that.
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  15. #86
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Mes wasn't ready for prime time last year. Hopefully this year is different. He could mean a big difference.

  16. #87
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    So, Hanigan catches Bailey tonight -- 4 games in a row without a Mesoraco sighting.
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    maybe he get's 1/5 lol

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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    So, Hanigan catches Bailey tonight -- 4 games in a row without a Mesoraco sighting.
    You don't understand he has to prove he belongs first, or so Ive been told. He must have to start looking better in bp to prove it. This is the kind of thing I was worrying about going in to this year. Now if he doesn't go 3-4 in the next game he won't be proving it even though he won't have played in a week.

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  20. #90
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    Re: Mesoraco makes team, Olivo down or gone

    Mesoraco caught Arroyo late in the spring and Dusty said it was because guys can't catch day games after night games. Then the first day game after a night game we see Hanigan catching Arroyo after catching the night before. Ok, it is early. Now we are 4 starts in and Mesoraco hasn't seen a start, much less an at bat after being arguably the best hitter in the spring. I really hope he is sick, or dealing with a small injury or something, because otherwise I just don't get it. Mesoraco has been on the Reds roster every day since September 2nd, 2012. This makes 32 games since then. Mesoraco has 0 starts and 3 at bats.


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