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Thread: Opening Day Roster (who's in, who's out?)

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    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Opening Day Roster (who's in, who's out?)

    Does Izturis look like the favorite to win the backup SS/utility INF role?

    What about the final spots for the 'pen? I sure hope they find room for Hoover on the Opening Day roster. He deserves it.

    Does Xavier Paul have the 5th OF spot locked down? Robinson's had a good spring, but I would think it has to be Paul's job. He's solid.

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    Re: Opening Day Roster (who's in, who's out?)

    I wouldn't be heartbroken if Hoover had to spend a month or two in Louisville if it meant retaining the services of Arredondo. It won't kill the kid to spend a little more time in the minors, even if he doesn't need it.

    I also wouldn't be heartbroken if the Reds flipped Arredondo for a useful spare part and kept Hoover in the bigs. After all, that is how we got Hoover in the first place (flipping Juan Francisco for a spare part).

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    Re: Opening Day Roster (who's in, who's out?)

    Anyway the bullpen goes would be fine with me. None of the players are horrible to have in front end of an MLB bullpen. They are competing most likely for roles in games the Reds are already losing so one over the other isn't going to amount to a huge difference to start the season. When one struggles they can bring the other guy back up. I would think Paul is a lock. I would take Burris for backup IF role.

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    Re: Opening Day Roster (who's in, who's out?)

    Donald goes on the DL for a short time, while Izturis makes the team as backup middle infielder. Hoover, Simon, and Arredondo make the team, with Parra and Ondrusek sent to AAA to "straighten things out".

    Bench
    Paul
    Heisey
    Mesoraco
    Hannahan
    Izturis

    Bullpen
    Chapman
    Broxton
    Marshall
    Hoover
    LeCure
    Arredondo
    Simon
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    Re: Opening Day Roster (who's in, who's out?)

    Aside from losing some velocity and not being able to get anyone out, all I ever hear during ST is "It's Spring Training" and the pitchers are working on things. Frankly, I'm a little concerned about Cueto's +7.00 e.r.a., but nobody else is because it's SPRING TRAINING.

    So why doesn't that apply to relievers?

    I say go with the regular guys and if they're not getting it done in a month or two, bring up Hoover.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

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    Re: Opening Day Roster (who's in, who's out?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Donald goes on the DL for a short time, while Izturis makes the team as backup middle infielder. Hoover, Simon, and Arredondo make the team, with Parra and Ondrusek sent to AAA to "straighten things out".

    Bench
    Paul
    Heisey
    Mesoraco
    Hannahan
    Izturis

    Bullpen
    Chapman
    Broxton
    Marshall
    Hoover
    LeCure
    Arredondo
    Simon
    This is the logical route but the Reds like to make an illogical move with this stuff. I bet Odrusek makes the team and Baker says, "He needs a chance to prove himself."

    I really hope you're right thought cause that's the best bullpen in the majors.

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    Re: Opening Day Roster (who's in, who's out?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Aside from losing some velocity and not being able to get anyone out, all I ever hear during ST is "It's Spring Training" and the pitchers are working on things. Frankly, I'm a little concerned about Cueto's +7.00 e.r.a., but nobody else is because it's SPRING TRAINING.

    So why doesn't that apply to relievers?

    I say go with the regular guys and if they're not getting it done in a month or two, bring up Hoover.
    Also note that the "it's just spring training rule" doesnt apply if somebody is looking good (see Hoover, Mes, izturis)...

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    Re: Opening Day Roster (who's in, who's out?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Donald goes on the DL for a short time, while Izturis makes the team as backup middle infielder. Hoover, Simon, and Arredondo make the team, with Parra and Ondrusek sent to AAA to "straighten things out".

    Bench
    Paul
    Heisey
    Mesoraco
    Hannahan
    Izturis

    Bullpen
    Chapman
    Broxton
    Marshall
    Hoover
    LeCure
    Arredondo
    Simon
    This is what should happen based on spring training performance.

    But that doesn't always rule the day. We'll see.

    Whatever they do, Hoover needs to be on the team and it will be ridiculous if he isn't. Hoover was on the post-season roster last year. He had a great spring. He could be a dominant reliever.

    Games in April and May count as well, Hoover is ready, there is no justification for keeping him at AAA to enable the Reds to keep ordinary middle relievers who may well pass through waivers anyway.

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    Re: Opening Day Roster (who's in, who's out?)

    It wouldn't be "ridiculous" that he'd be sent to AAA at all, IMO-- sometimes, you have to balance what's best for the club long-term (all season) and short-term (April, perhaps May).

    I could see the argument for Parra as a LOOGY or another move like that, especially early in the season. Sometimes, the best long-term (2013) approach is to protect assets. That often means, in the short term (April or May), your best players aren't yet on the big league club.

    Hoover has options. (Thankfully, so does Ondrusek.) That may make him the odd man out.

    Shrug.

    That happens often to good teams.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
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    Re: Opening Day Roster (who's in, who's out?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    It wouldn't be "ridiculous" that he'd be sent to AAA at all, IMO-- sometimes, you have to balance what's best for the club long-term (all season) and short-term (April, perhaps May).

    I could see the argument for Parra as a LOOGY or another move like that, especially early in the season. Sometimes, the best long-term (2013) approach is to protect assets. That often means, in the short term (April or May), your best players aren't yet on the big league club.

    Hoover has options. (Thankfully, so does Ondrusek.) That may make him the odd man out.

    Shrug.

    That happens often to good teams.
    Well, then, you certainly would have sent Mesoraco down. Reds lost Olivo, could have kept him for the longer term.

    And sending down Hoover who's had the hottest spring of all Reds pitchers is the opposite of the old adage "go with the hot hand." Let him be hot in AAA; after he cools off, maybe then we can bring him up.

    I think you need to go with the best players absent compelling reasons. I don't think Manny Parra or Logan Ondrusek constitute a compelling reason.

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    Re: Opening Day Roster (who's in, who's out?)

    LHP Manny Parra has a career .766 OPS against LHB

    Pass.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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    remdog (04-01-2013)

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    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Opening Day Roster (who's in, who's out?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Aside from losing some velocity and not being able to get anyone out, all I ever hear during ST is "It's Spring Training" and the pitchers are working on things. Frankly, I'm a little concerned about Cueto's +7.00 e.r.a., but nobody else is because it's SPRING TRAINING.

    So why doesn't that apply to relievers?

    I say go with the regular guys and if they're not getting it done in a month or two, bring up Hoover.
    I think it depends on the player in question. Logan Ondrusek, Manny Parra, Jose Arredondo, Alfredo Simon, JJ Hoover.... fair or unfair, they were all competing based on spring training, to make the roster. Their results, again, fairly or unfairly, matter more than the results of a guy who has a long proven track record.

    I have said it time and time again, that basing jobs off of spring training results is a terrible idea. But, that isn't to say that you need to ignore what happens there, you just need to look beyond the stats. Look at the stuff of a pitcher. Look at the swing and consistency of a hitter. Was there a change in actual skillset (lowered/raised velocity, improvement on pitches, improvement in control, showing off power he had never shown before, changed swing mechanics and now the guy has less holes in his swing and can make more contact, showing better strikezone judgement than ever before).

    Based on what everyone did last year, I can't see an argument that that has Hoover sitting in Louisville. Yes, he only threw 30 innings in the Majors compared to 60 from the other guys, but his 30 innings were flat out dominant and backed up what he had done in AAA in the time he spent there too. Then he came out in the spring and was even more dominant. Ondrusek and Arredondo had nice ERA's last year, but both guys really struggled to throw strikes. Ondrusek came to spring and walked as many batters as he struck out. That isn't the statement you want to make when your walk rate has gotten worse every year of your MLB career and was over 5 last season.

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    Re: Opening Day Roster (who's in, who's out?)

    I'm rooting for two things. Hoover on the roster Opening Day... Ondrusek not.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Chip R (03-31-2013)

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    Re: Opening Day Roster (who's in, who's out?)

    Tonight, in the Reds first game in a big league stadium this spring training, the Reds pitched Hoover, Chapman, Lecure, and Simon in releif, with Marshall and Broxton warming up.

    Probably reading too much, but I'm guessing Hoover has the club made.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

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    Re: Opening Day Roster (who's in, who's out?)

    Quote Originally Posted by 757690 View Post
    Tonight, in the Reds first game in a big league stadium this spring training, the Reds pitched Hoover, Chapman, Lecure, and Simon in releif, with Marshall and Broxton warming up.

    Probably reading too much, but I'm guessing Hoover has the club made.
    I think Hoover and Simon both have the club made. Just sensed that tonight's pitchers all are going north.

    The last guy in the pen is probably Arredondo but I still think he could get moved - if the Reds want to keep Parra as a LOOGY/long man. Note: Article on Reds.com lists Parra as pitching relief in tomorrow's "A" game at Chase Field.

    I'm expecting Ondrusek to be sent down. They've been saying his velocity has dropped, hopefully he's not injured.

    I wouldn't even guess at this point who the final bench infielder will be. Izturis had the best spring, but I have no clue. They all played tonight.
    Last edited by Kc61; 03-30-2013 at 12:36 AM.


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