Jay Bruce is the 2nd best hitter on the team and is solid defensively. He is not even a tiny bit of a problem. He is one of the best young players in baseball. Even if he never gets any better than he is right now his career will be a great Reds success story. Not everybody can be Joey Votto.
Raisor (04-02-2013)
Ehh. I would argue that. Choo is definitely right behind Votto in that case.Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling
Yeah in the case of Dunn we're going to talk about Major Leagues since that's where the regression occurred. The evidence you provided; Jacoby was a good Minor League hitting coach for Adam Dunn in 2001; really doesn't support that he was a good Major League hitting coach for Dunn or anyone else.
2009 Attendance Record: 3-5 2010 Attendance Record: 2-9 2015 Attendance Record: 2-0
2011 Attendance Record: 3-4 2012 Attendance Record: 3-4
2013 Attendance Record: 5-2 2014 Attendance Record: 3-1
Me too.
I used to get so frustrated about Jay Bruce. I thought he was going to be the mega-star young player that Trout and presumably Harper are going to be in a short time. I really felt like with all the scouting reports I read on him he was that "cannot miss" guy, and to a degree I thought he and Votto would kind of be flip-flopped in terms of ceiling.
Now, I have accepted Bruce for what he is. I don't expect anything more, and I am not let down when he has those days like yesterday. He's an above average player, not a star. And I think the Reds are on the same page as this. It is telling in my opinion that this offseason when given the opportunity to lock-up Bruce to a lifetime contract at a fair market value (Bruce and his agent wanted to do so) the Reds declined the interest.
Enjoy Jay when he is hot. He's a luxury on a team like we have now. On a team that was not this complete, he would certainly draw harsher criticism.
2009 Attendance Record: 3-5 2010 Attendance Record: 2-9 2015 Attendance Record: 2-0
2011 Attendance Record: 3-4 2012 Attendance Record: 3-4
2013 Attendance Record: 5-2 2014 Attendance Record: 3-1
Touche'!
That said, only a stint on the disabled list will prevent Bruce from having his best season, by at least 10%, in the Majors.
Would love to see it, but why do you suggest a 10% increase in Jay's numbers is a given?
2009 Attendance Record: 3-5 2010 Attendance Record: 2-9 2015 Attendance Record: 2-0
2011 Attendance Record: 3-4 2012 Attendance Record: 3-4
2013 Attendance Record: 5-2 2014 Attendance Record: 3-1
I think he was saying JB will be in the top 10% this season.
Agreed.
Choo is clearly a better hitter than Bruce, but the odds of him being anything other than a one-year rental are slim. Bruce is the second best hitter on the Reds that is under team control beyond 2013.
I have no problems with Jay being on the team, but in what world is he even " very good"?
He OPS's in the mid the low-mid 800s every year. He's SLGed over 500 once in his career. He owns a career .330 OBP. Statistically, it seems he's not actually the GG level RF everyone thought he was (and watching his play in the field seems to back that up.) He's got serious contact issues.
He's a useful player and works in the role he's settled into, but overall I'd be more likely to call him slightly above average than anything approaching "very good."
His age-26 season. That's normally a 7-10% increase from age-25, but with the upper echelon of players, which Bruce is, they trend closer to the 10%. Also, Bruce had a down year last year compared to how much better he should have gotten, much of that to do with fewer opportunities to bat with runners both on base and in scoring position. And, with no Rolen batting in front or behind him, his opportunities are that much better.
I'd advise people to compare Bruce with his contemporaries.
Guys 26 and under (and he's a young 26...as he doesn't turn 26 until tomorrow).
That's fine and I agree.
I don't think there should be a double standard regarding that rule though, as is currently being applied to other current under-26 key members of the Reds roster.
True, but pitchers and hitters are different, and the physical development is actually later with a 'starting' pitcher's arm. Plus, velocity won't improve during the peak years. It's stamina, consistency, and control which improve. That's why Leake's ceiling is more measurable. How much more stamina and control can he have?
Jay Bruce finished 10th in the MVP balloting last year at the age of 25 and won the Silver Slugger Award and has been an All Star the last two years. If that doesn't qualify as "very good" for you then I guess he will have to win the MVP Award before you begin to appreciate what the Reds have with their young buck.
Last edited by AtomicDumpling; 04-02-2013 at 05:26 PM.
No, that literally means nothing to me considering how well established of a sham MLB Awards voting is, and the fact that this argument would not be used to support the merit of any other player.
That this argument is being made though does validate the idea that Redszone cannot judge Jay Bruce very well on an objective level.
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