Turn Off Ads?
Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 123456 ... LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 105

Thread: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

  1. #16
    Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2000
    Posts
    4,250

    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    Quote Originally Posted by TOBTTReds View Post
    You mean until he got to the Bigs? That happens to a lot of players, MLB pitchers are a lot better than AAA pitchers.
    Dunn is a pretty extreme example though. He went from being a 300 hitter with a slightly below average strikeout rate to being a 240 hitter with a historically awful strikeout rate. That is unusual.

  2. Turn Off Ads?
  3. #17
    BobC, get a legit F.O.! Mario-Rijo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Springfield, Ohio
    Posts
    9,052

    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    Quote Originally Posted by osuceltic View Post
    Nothing really new here. It has been obvious that he has become more of a pull hitter. When those hips and lead shoulder start opening up early it makes it almost impossible to hit anything on the outside half of the plate. This has been Bruce's problem when he's going bad. There's no doubt Jacoby and Bruce know this, but it's a tough thing to fix.

    I'm reminded of what Lee Trevino used to say when discussing a fade/slice vs. a hook (golf terms -- slice is like going to the opposite field, hook like pulling the ball). He would say, "You can talk to a fade, but a hook won't listen." And Ben Hogan said, "I hate a hook ... it's like a rattlesnake in your pocket." The chief causes for a persistent hook are the same as those for pull-hitters -- the front side opens up too soon. It's a devil to fix.
    While I agree it's not simple to fix it's a matter of him understanding he can turn on the fastball without having to jump right on it. He is quick enough to the ball, he needs to be constantly reminded to hit the off speed stuff, he will react to the FB when he sees it.
    "You can't let praise or criticism get to you. It's a weakness to get caught up in either one."

    --Woody Hayes

  4. #18
    Miami Redhawks Redhook's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    2,257

    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    Quote Originally Posted by osuceltic View Post
    Nothing really new here. It has been obvious that he has become more of a pull hitter. When those hips and lead shoulder start opening up early it makes it almost impossible to hit anything on the outside half of the plate. This has been Bruce's problem when he's going bad. There's no doubt Jacoby and Bruce know this, but it's a tough thing to fix.
    I agree.

    I'm reminded of what Lee Trevino used to say when discussing a fade/slice vs. a hook (golf terms -- slice is like going to the opposite field, hook like pulling the ball). He would say, "You can talk to a fade, but a hook won't listen." And Ben Hogan said, "I hate a hook ... it's like a rattlesnake in your pocket." The chief causes for a persistent hook are the same as those for pull-hitters -- the front side opens up too soon. It's a devil to fix.
    I completely understand what you were trying to say, but you actually have it backwards. If you open up too soon in golf, you will pull and slice the ball. Hooking is caused by the body being too passive and the hands taking over. If Bruce plays golf, I bet he hits ton of massive 350 yard pulls and slices off to the left.

    Bruce, in golf terms, is a typical slicer (puller) of the ball who tries to do too much too soon. If he can remain just slightly more patient (square longer) he'll be able to hit the ball to the opposite more easily. Not easy to do for baseball players, or most golfers.
    "....the two players I liked watching the most were Barry Larkin and Eric Davis. I was suitably entertained by their effortless skill that I didn't need them crashing into walls like a squirrel on a coke binge." - dsmith421

    www.kylevoska.com - Golfer? Check out my blog for golf tips.

  5. #19
    Miami Redhawks Redhook's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    2,257

    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve4192 View Post
    Dunn is a pretty extreme example though. He went from being a 300 hitter with a slightly below average strikeout rate to being a 240 hitter with a historically awful strikeout rate. That is unusual.
    He was a better pure hitter early on in his career. I was really impressed with his swing his rookie year. Then it gradually got longer and more pull-proned.
    "....the two players I liked watching the most were Barry Larkin and Eric Davis. I was suitably entertained by their effortless skill that I didn't need them crashing into walls like a squirrel on a coke binge." - dsmith421

    www.kylevoska.com - Golfer? Check out my blog for golf tips.

  6. #20
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Posts
    1,374

    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    Quote Originally Posted by Redhook View Post
    I agree.



    I completely understand what you were trying to say, but you actually have it backwards. If you open up too soon in golf, you will pull and slice the ball. Hooking is caused by the body being too passive and the hands taking over. If Bruce plays golf, I bet he hits ton of massive 350 yard pulls and slices off to the left.

    Bruce, in golf terms, is a typical slicer (puller) of the ball who tries to do too much too soon. If he can remain just slightly more patient (square longer) he'll be able to hit the ball to the opposite more easily. Not easy to do for baseball players, or most golfers.
    Yes and no. There are different types of hooks/fades. I'm talking about the kind where you open up too early, come over the top and pull and snap hook. You're right that if you open up like that and the hands don't keep up, it will result in lazy pushes/pop-up fades.

    Unfortunately, I have become something of an expert ...

  7. #21
    Member hebroncougar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    2,221

    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    To me, it seems this has a lot to do with Jacoby or a philosophy, or am I wrong? I think about everyone the Reds bring up turns into a pull hitter (save for Votto)?

  8. #22
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Brownsburg, Indiana
    Posts
    15,268

    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    Quote Originally Posted by Redhook View Post
    I agree.



    I completely understand what you were trying to say, but you actually have it backwards. If you open up too soon in golf, you will pull and slice the ball. Hooking is caused by the body being too passive and the hands taking over. If Bruce plays golf, I bet he hits ton of massive 350 yard pulls and slices off to the left.

    Bruce, in golf terms, is a typical slicer (puller) of the ball who tries to do too much too soon. If he can remain just slightly more patient (square longer) he'll be able to hit the ball to the opposite more easily. Not easy to do for baseball players, or most golfers.
    I think you have it backwards. A slice, in golf, and a pull in baseball are at opposite ends of the spectrum. Totally opposite. Osuceltic explained it perfectly.
    Last edited by RANDY IN INDY; 03-31-2013 at 10:54 AM.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  9. #23
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Guelph, ON
    Posts
    16,093

    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    I'd be curious to see when that lean changed. If I recall, he destroyed the league initially and then slumped hard. Perhaps the stance that allowed him to better drive the ball the other way was leaving him susceptible to hard, inside stuff. After a few times around the league, pitchers figured that out and forced him to adjust.

    And after he gets beat a few times inside, perhaps that's when he starts jumping a bit again and works himself in to a funk.

    Just a thought.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  10. Likes:

    RANDY IN INDY (03-31-2013)

  11. #24
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Brownsburg, Indiana
    Posts
    15,268

    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    My thoughts exactly, Rick.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  12. #25
    Miami Redhawks Redhook's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    2,257

    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    Quote Originally Posted by osuceltic View Post
    Yes and no. There are different types of hooks/fades. I'm talking about the kind where you open up too early, come over the top and pull and snap hook. You're right that if you open up like that and the hands don't keep up, it will result in lazy pushes/pop-up fades.

    Unfortunately, I have become something of an expert ...
    Thanks for taking the time to go into further explanation. I agree with what you just said. I still think you're original paragraph, in golf terms, was backwards. Slices and pulls are caused by the exact same swing. The only difference is an open clubface at impact. True pull-hooks, like you mentioned, are more rare than bald eagles.
    Last edited by Redhook; 03-31-2013 at 04:35 PM.
    "....the two players I liked watching the most were Barry Larkin and Eric Davis. I was suitably entertained by their effortless skill that I didn't need them crashing into walls like a squirrel on a coke binge." - dsmith421

    www.kylevoska.com - Golfer? Check out my blog for golf tips.

  13. #26
    Matt's Dad RANDY IN INDY's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Brownsburg, Indiana
    Posts
    15,268

    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    Pulled means that a righty hits it to the 3rd base side and a lefty hits it to the 1st base side. A slice goes the opposite way.
    Talent is God Given: be humble.
    Fame is man given: be thankful.
    Conceit is self given: be careful.

    John Wooden

  14. #27
    Miami Redhawks Redhook's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    2,257

    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    Quote Originally Posted by RANDY IN INDY View Post
    Pulled means that a righty hits it to the 3rd base side and a lefty hits it to the 1st base side. A slice goes the opposite way.
    It goes the opposite way because of deflection off the club face and spin. Same swing.
    "....the two players I liked watching the most were Barry Larkin and Eric Davis. I was suitably entertained by their effortless skill that I didn't need them crashing into walls like a squirrel on a coke binge." - dsmith421

    www.kylevoska.com - Golfer? Check out my blog for golf tips.

  15. #28
    The Future is Now Ghosts of 1990's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    4,053

    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    Quote Originally Posted by TOBTTReds View Post
    You mean until he got to the Bigs? That happens to a lot of players, MLB pitchers are a lot better than AAA pitchers.
    Dunn hit .300 squarely his first full first half in the big leagues in 2002 and was an all-star...
    2009 Attendance Record: 3-5 2010 Attendance Record: 2-9
    2011 Attendance Record: 3-4 2012 Attendance Record: 3-4
    2013 Attendance Record: 5-2 2014 Attendance Record: 3-1

  16. #29
    The Future is Now Ghosts of 1990's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    4,053

    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    Quote Originally Posted by hebroncougar View Post
    To me, it seems this has a lot to do with Jacoby or a philosophy, or am I wrong? I think about everyone the Reds bring up turns into a pull hitter (save for Votto)?
    I agree with you. I don't think that Jacoby teaches a very good approach. I don't play for the Reds so I don't know what that approach is. Some guys, they're going to be beyond anything a hitting coach can tell them. like Votto for instance.

    Jacoby hasn't done guys like Bruce any favors in my opinion.
    2009 Attendance Record: 3-5 2010 Attendance Record: 2-9
    2011 Attendance Record: 3-4 2012 Attendance Record: 3-4
    2013 Attendance Record: 5-2 2014 Attendance Record: 3-1

  17. #30
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    35,592

    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosts of 1990 View Post
    Dunn hit .300 squarely his first full first half in the big leagues in 2002 and was an all-star...
    BABIP in 2002 through the All Star break: .386
    BABIP in 2002 after the All Star break: .235
    BABIP in his career: .288

    Dunn hit for a good average in the first half of 2002 because he was incredibly BABIP lucky and his strikeout rate was *only* 25.1% at the time, which for him is very good, but for everyone else would be very poor (25% K rate puts you in the bottom 5.5% of players since 2000 with at least 1500 MLB PA's).


Turn Off Ads?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Board Moderators may, at their discretion and judgment, delete and/or edit any messages that violate any of the following guidelines: 1. Explicit references to alleged illegal or unlawful acts. 2. Graphic sexual descriptions. 3. Racial or ethnic slurs. 4. Use of edgy language (including masked profanity). 5. Direct personal attacks, flames, fights, trolling, baiting, name-calling, general nuisance, excessive player criticism or anything along those lines. 6. Posting spam. 7. Each person may have only one user account. It is fine to be critical here - that's what this board is for. But let's not beat a subject or a player to death, please.

Thank you, and most importantly, enjoy yourselves!


RedsZone.com is a privately owned website and is not affiliated with the Cincinnati Reds or Major League Baseball


Contact us: Boss | GIK | BCubb2003 | dabvu2498 | Gallen5862 | LexRedsFan | Plus Plus | RedlegJake | redsfan1995 | The Operator | Tommyjohn25