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Thread: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

  1. #61
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    Jay Bruce is the 2nd best hitter on the team and is solid defensively. He is not even a tiny bit of a problem. He is one of the best young players in baseball. Even if he never gets any better than he is right now his career will be a great Reds success story. Not everybody can be Joey Votto.

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  4. #62
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    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    Jay Bruce is the 2nd best hitter on the team and is solid defensively. He is not even a tiny bit of a problem. He is one of the best young players in baseball. Even if he never gets any better than he is right now his career will be a great Reds success story. Not everybody can be Joey Votto.
    Ehh. I would argue that. Choo is definitely right behind Votto in that case.
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  5. #63
    The Future is Now Ghosts of 1990's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    Quote Originally Posted by edabbs44 View Post
    He really took off in 2001 in AAA ball, .329/.441/.676 with 20 bombs in 55 games. Maybe we should try and figure out who his hitting coach was there.

    Oh wait...

    http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/team/...staffid=116461
    Yeah in the case of Dunn we're going to talk about Major Leagues since that's where the regression occurred. The evidence you provided; Jacoby was a good Minor League hitting coach for Adam Dunn in 2001; really doesn't support that he was a good Major League hitting coach for Dunn or anyone else.
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  6. #64
    The Future is Now Ghosts of 1990's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Gack View Post
    Bruce is what he is. I've stopped accepting that he's an MVP type of player even though he has the talent to be that kind of guy. Just way too inconsistent for my taste. I've been one of Jay's most vocal critics, but I feel better about him, (and myself) once I realized to just accept that he's not going to reach the level we all thought he could. His level right now is AS type level at some points, but I think we all expected another level out of him and he's just not reaching it and that's still pretty good for him and us.
    Me too.

    I used to get so frustrated about Jay Bruce. I thought he was going to be the mega-star young player that Trout and presumably Harper are going to be in a short time. I really felt like with all the scouting reports I read on him he was that "cannot miss" guy, and to a degree I thought he and Votto would kind of be flip-flopped in terms of ceiling.

    Now, I have accepted Bruce for what he is. I don't expect anything more, and I am not let down when he has those days like yesterday. He's an above average player, not a star. And I think the Reds are on the same page as this. It is telling in my opinion that this offseason when given the opportunity to lock-up Bruce to a lifetime contract at a fair market value (Bruce and his agent wanted to do so) the Reds declined the interest.

    Enjoy Jay when he is hot. He's a luxury on a team like we have now. On a team that was not this complete, he would certainly draw harsher criticism.
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    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve4192 View Post
    That hasn't stopped people from claiming Mike Leake is as good as he will ever get. Why should Bruce be any different?
    Touche'!

    That said, only a stint on the disabled list will prevent Bruce from having his best season, by at least 10%, in the Majors.

  8. #66
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    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Touche'!

    That said, only a stint on the disabled list will prevent Bruce from having his best season, by at least 10%, in the Majors.
    Would love to see it, but why do you suggest a 10% increase in Jay's numbers is a given?
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  9. #67
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosts of 1990 View Post
    Would love to see it, but why do you suggest a 10% increase in Jay's numbers is a given?
    I think he was saying JB will be in the top 10% this season.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    Quote Originally Posted by KOBasinger View Post
    Ehh. I would argue that. Choo is definitely right behind Votto in that case.
    Agreed.

    Choo is clearly a better hitter than Bruce, but the odds of him being anything other than a one-year rental are slim. Bruce is the second best hitter on the Reds that is under team control beyond 2013.

  11. #69
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    I have no problems with Jay being on the team, but in what world is he even " very good"?

    He OPS's in the mid the low-mid 800s every year. He's SLGed over 500 once in his career. He owns a career .330 OBP. Statistically, it seems he's not actually the GG level RF everyone thought he was (and watching his play in the field seems to back that up.) He's got serious contact issues.

    He's a useful player and works in the role he's settled into, but overall I'd be more likely to call him slightly above average than anything approaching "very good."
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    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

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    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosts of 1990 View Post
    Would love to see it, but why do you suggest a 10% increase in Jay's numbers is a given?
    His age-26 season. That's normally a 7-10% increase from age-25, but with the upper echelon of players, which Bruce is, they trend closer to the 10%. Also, Bruce had a down year last year compared to how much better he should have gotten, much of that to do with fewer opportunities to bat with runners both on base and in scoring position. And, with no Rolen batting in front or behind him, his opportunities are that much better.

  13. #71
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    I'd advise people to compare Bruce with his contemporaries.

    Guys 26 and under (and he's a young 26...as he doesn't turn 26 until tomorrow).
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  14. #72
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I'd advise people to compare Bruce with his contemporaries.

    Guys 26 and under (and he's a young 26...as he doesn't turn 26 until tomorrow).
    That's fine and I agree.

    I don't think there should be a double standard regarding that rule though, as is currently being applied to other current under-26 key members of the Reds roster.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  15. #73
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    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    That's fine and I agree.

    I don't think there should be a double standard regarding that rule though, as is currently being applied to other current under-26 key members of the Reds roster.
    True, but pitchers and hitters are different, and the physical development is actually later with a 'starting' pitcher's arm. Plus, velocity won't improve during the peak years. It's stamina, consistency, and control which improve. That's why Leake's ceiling is more measurable. How much more stamina and control can he have?

  16. #74
    KungFu Fighter AtomicDumpling's Avatar
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    Re: Let's talk about Jay Bruce and his swing over the years

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    I have no problems with Jay being on the team, but in what world is he even " very good"?

    He OPS's in the mid the low-mid 800s every year. He's SLGed over 500 once in his career. He owns a career .330 OBP. Statistically, it seems he's not actually the GG level RF everyone thought he was (and watching his play in the field seems to back that up.) He's got serious contact issues.

    He's a useful player and works in the role he's settled into, but overall I'd be more likely to call him slightly above average than anything approaching "very good."
    Jay Bruce finished 10th in the MVP balloting last year at the age of 25 and won the Silver Slugger Award and has been an All Star the last two years. If that doesn't qualify as "very good" for you then I guess he will have to win the MVP Award before you begin to appreciate what the Reds have with their young buck.
    Last edited by AtomicDumpling; 04-02-2013 at 06:26 PM.

  17. #75
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtomicDumpling View Post
    Jay Bruce finished 10th in the MVP balloting last year at the age of 25 and has been an All Star the last two years. If that doesn't qualify as "very good" for you then I guess he will have to win the MVP Award before you begin to appreciate what the Reds have with their young buck.
    No, that literally means nothing to me considering how well established of a sham MLB Awards voting is, and the fact that this argument would not be used to support the merit of any other player.

    That this argument is being made though does validate the idea that Redszone cannot judge Jay Bruce very well on an objective level.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.


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