bigredmechanism (04-02-2013),elfmanvt07 (04-02-2013),Homer Bailey (04-02-2013),redsfan30 (04-02-2013)
If taking the bat out of Votto's hands is the difference for this team, then they have no business being talked about for the postseason. Just pitch around him 75% of the time and the Reds are cooked I guess.
Controversial? Sure. Questionable? Maybe. But I wonder how everyone would've reacted if BP rolled a pair, as he has been known to do in the past.
People would have complained if Brandon grounded into a double play. No doubt about that. But, that being said, I still don't take the bat out of Joey Votto's hands. Ever.
NOTE: I didn't quote the top quote but it just popped up into this post. Odd.
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RadfordVA (04-02-2013)
The only time I can stomach sac bunts is when it's the pitcher doing it.
The run expectancy is higher bases loaded with 1 out than 1st and 2nd with 0 outs. Especially when you need only one run I don't see how you can bash the move. Heisey just flat out didn't get the job done. Don't know how you can absolve the players on this one. Dusty goes with numbers gets crushed, goes with gut gets crushed. Winning is truly only thing that avoids critics for a manager.
Caveman Techie (04-02-2013),Screwball (04-02-2013),TSJ55 (04-02-2013)
Cincinnati Reds: Farm System Champions 2022
You're fighting a losing battle. I'm neither a Dusty apologist nor hater, but it's unreasonable to blame this loss on him. The argument against bunting Phillips suggests that Phillips would, at minimum, get on base to set up Votto who would then have the opportunity to drive in runs -- as opposed to bunting to give Heisey a shot with runners on second and third with less than 2 outs, opening up many scoring possibilities that don't require a base hit.
The problem I see with this is: If Dusty let Phillips hit, who's to say Brandon doesn't decide to try to drive the ball the other way as he is known to do in that scenario and end up grounding out to second, moving the runners to second and third anyway - or perhaps into a double play? If he moves the runners to 2nd and 3rd, avoiding the DP, then Scioscia walks Votto just the same.
Additionally - did you pay attention to Brandon at the plate yesterday? It was as if he couldn't even see the ball. Paul should have been picked off second base because Phillips couldn't make contact trying to bunt a waist-high fastball right over the heart of the plate. He looked out of sorts in every plate appearance - yet many believe he should have been asked to swing away.
It's not like Votto was looking like himself at the plate either. Fact is, nobody was in the zone. 3 for 42. Let that sink in...and then explain to me again why you support the argument that the Reds should have played for 2 hits in that situation (from players who went a combined 0 for 9 in the game) rather than a sac fly.
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1940757690 (04-02-2013),bigredmechanism (04-02-2013)
I'm not questioning the decision though I probably would have made a different one. I personally would never take the bat out of Votto's hands or even BPs hands. Those are the veteran players you are depending on leading you offensively.
One thing I will point out, if you are so afraid of BP hitting into a double play with a runner on first then maybe he isn't such a great fit in the #2 spot of the batting order.
Always Red (04-02-2013),texasdave (04-02-2013)
It would have taken 1 hit, not 2 to score the run and of all the Reds it is Joey Votto and Brandon Phillips that I would most want up there with the game on the line. The bat was taken out of both of their hands, and I wouldn't have done that. I don't blame the loss on Dusty though, Heisey needs to come through in that situation regardless and if he doesn't Bruce needs to pick him up.
But it is only 1 game of many.
jmac (04-02-2013)
One game and some are already calling for Baker's head.
Yay, Redszone.
Methinks this thread will be revisited when the Reds win the division.
And we're really losing sight of the real issue -- the Reds just lost their #4 hitter and a huge part of their offense from last season. Ludwick's numbers are going to be very, very difficult to even come close to replacing with the current options the team has.
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