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Thread: Ludwick out - The batting order going forward?

  1. #31
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick out - The batting order going forward?

    Phillips smiles more, you have to take that into consideration.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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    RANDY IN INDY (04-03-2013)

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  4. #32
    My clutch is broken RichRed's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick out - The batting order going forward?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redhook View Post
    Choo
    Votto
    Phillips
    Bruce
    Frazier
    Hanigan
    Paulsey
    Cozart

    *bottom 3 are interchageable

    I know there's no chance of that lineup happening with Dusty, however, I think it'd be interesting to see. Just think how many times Brandon and Jay would come up with more than one guy on base. Think how many times the Reds would score in the first inning to take the lead. Also, Votto would get a few more at-bats throughout the season, and he would probably be intentionally walked less.
    Big fan of this one. I think it puts the most pressure on the pitcher to start the game. Two best OBP guys back-to-back? Love it.
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  5. #33
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick out - The batting order going forward?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Phillips smiles more, you have to take that into consideration.
    I was getting all serious reading this thread then you come along and make me laugh.

    Knock it off!!!!!
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  6. #34
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    Re: Ludwick out - The batting order going forward?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    This is simply untrue.

    There was a 100 point difference in OPS between Heisey and Stubbs last season, and a 60 point OPS difference career. That's the same difference between Chris Heisey and Jay Bruce, BTW.



    Heisey's career numbers are almost identical to Brandon Phillips. And, while I'd love to see Phillips hitting seventh or eighth in the Reds' lineup, I haven't seen any posts from you or anyone else to suggest he doesn't belong at the top of the order.
    Of course for most of Heisey's career he has been a spot starter, meaning his starts and pinch hit appearances have been somewhat cherry picked for him to maximize his success. You are not giving Dusty enough credit if you think he blindly picks his starting lineup out of hat.

  7. #35
    Titanic Struggles Caveat Emperor's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick out - The batting order going forward?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    This is simply untrue.

    There was a 100 point difference in OPS between Heisey and Stubbs last season, and a 60 point OPS difference career. That's the same difference between Chris Heisey and Jay Bruce, BTW.
    Accounting for the difference in PHing abilities (where Heisey is clearly a superior player), the difference between the numbers for Stubbs and Heisey as starters is rather small -- roughly .30 OPS points (.697 for Stubbs, .729 for Heisey).

    That difference is, likely, completely balanced by Stubbs' superior OF defense.

    They've been roughly the same guys over the course of their respective careers -- Heisey has just had more success as a bench bat while Stubbs has had a little more defensive prowess.

    Heisey's career numbers are almost identical to Brandon Phillips. And, while I'd love to see Phillips hitting seventh or eighth in the Reds' lineup, I haven't seen any posts from you or anyone else to suggest he doesn't belong at the top of the order.
    Heisey's play decreases noticeably the more frequently he starts -- it's been observed by many in all of his previous stints, and it's probably why he's been passed over several times (in favor of outside players) for starting gigs on this team. I expect his numbers to fall off considerably if he's asked to contribute a full season of ABs.
    Last edited by Caveat Emperor; 04-03-2013 at 11:03 AM.
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    LoganBuck (04-03-2013)

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    Re: Ludwick out - The batting order going forward?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redhook View Post
    Choo
    Votto
    Phillips
    Bruce
    Frazier
    Hanigan
    Paulsey
    Cozart

    *bottom 3 are interchageable

    I know there's no chance of that lineup happening with Dusty, however, I think it'd be interesting to see. Just think how many times Brandon and Jay would come up with more than one guy on base. Think how many times the Reds would score in the first inning to take the lead. Also, Votto would get a few more at-bats throughout the season, and he would probably be intentionally walked less.
    What a tremendous waste of Joey Votto. You want a guy with a career .350 BA w/RISP hitting second, when the two guys behind him only combine for a .266 BA w/RISP?

  10. #37
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick out - The batting order going forward?

    What is this BA you speak of?
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  11. #38
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick out - The batting order going forward?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsLvr View Post
    What a tremendous waste of Joey Votto. You want a guy with a career .350 BA w/RISP hitting second, when the two guys behind him only combine for a .266 BA w/RISP?
    Considering the only other guy on the team who get on base at a good rate is Choo, 2nd seems like a good place for Votto. You take advantage of both is slugging and obp skills, plus you might get him an extra at bat a game. That is a good thing for your best hitter.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  12. #39
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    Re: Ludwick out - The batting order going forward?

    I'm surprised no one has mentioned Frazier batting second with Phillips in the cleanup spot. I think that's the way I would lean at this point. I like the idea of getting Frazier more fastballs.

    Votto and Bruce are going to be 3 and 5. That's just the way it is going to be. Some agree, dome don't, but it isn't going to change. So with that understood, and knowing Choo is leading off and Hanigan is batting eighth, we're dealing with four guys (Phillips, Frazier, Heisey, Cozart) for four spots (2, 4, 6, 7).

    If we're interested in getting more at bats for our better hitters, I think it's pretty obvious that the two best hitters out of that group are Phillips and Frazier. For me, the best use of those two in the 2/4 spots is with Frazier batting second and Phillips fourth.

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    Re: Ludwick out - The batting order going forward?

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    Considering the only other guy on the team who get on base at a good rate is Choo, 2nd seems like a good place for Votto. You take advantage of both is slugging and obp skills, plus you might get him an extra at bat a game. That is a good thing for your best hitter.
    I think Votto's .967 OPS vs Phillip's .754 OPS is a better indication. Phillips is an excellent hitter, but he isn't going to drive in runs like Votto is going to. Votto is a doubles machine, Phillips is going to give you a bunch of singles and the occasional display of power.

  14. #41
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick out - The batting order going forward?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsLvr View Post
    I think Votto's .967 OPS vs Phillip's .754 OPS is a better indication. Phillips is an excellent hitter, but he isn't going to drive in runs like Votto is going to. Votto is a doubles machine, Phillips is going to give you a bunch of singles and the occasional display of power.
    He's also not going to be on base like Votto is.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  15. #42
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick out - The batting order going forward?

    Quote Originally Posted by CySeymour View Post
    He's also not going to be on base like Votto is.
    Yeah, just once I'd like to see Dusty put our high OBP guys near the top of the lineup and watch our offense take off.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  16. #43
    Future Fame of Holler WildcatFan's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick out - The batting order going forward?

    I see most people here are mentioning plugging Heisey in at LF, but wouldn't it make more sense to move Choo there and put Heisey/Paul in center? Outfield defense, arguably the biggest hole coming in to the season, is greatly improved. My (Dusty-influenced) lineup would be:

    Choo LF
    Phillips 2B
    Votto 1B
    Frazier 3B
    Bruce RF
    Heisey CF
    Cozart SS
    Hanigan C
    P

    Flip Frazier and Phillips if you so desire.
    "I never argue with people who say baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn't. And that's what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

  17. #44
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick out - The batting order going forward?

    Quote Originally Posted by osuceltic View Post
    I'm surprised no one has mentioned Frazier batting second with Phillips in the cleanup spot. I think that's the way I would lean at this point. I like the idea of getting Frazier more fastballs.

    .
    IF Bruce isn't going to hit second or cleanup and IF Phillips is going to hit cleanup, then yes, Frazier would be my choice to hit second.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  18. #45
    Future Fame of Holler WildcatFan's Avatar
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    Re: Ludwick out - The batting order going forward?

    According to Jamie Ramsey, BP is batting cleanup. Heisey is in left, batting second. Not sure why he and Choo aren't switching defensive spots.
    "I never argue with people who say baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn't. And that's what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski


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