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Thread: Cingrani...

  1. #31
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Cingrani...

    Haha. At least you are consistent icehole.... very, very consistent.

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  3. #32
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    Re: Cingrani...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    It looked like a pure curveball to me.
    Not me. It's thrown too hard to be a true curve.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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  4. #33
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    Re: Cingrani...

    For those wondering what he was throwing, we have Cingrani's input:
    http://www.milb.com/news/article.jsp..._milb&sid=milb

    Tony Cingrani stuck with basically one pitch in his Triple-A debut on Thursday night. Not one batter came close to touching it.
    "I was just throwing it up there, and they couldn't hit it," Cingrani said of his fastball. "I felt pretty good, the ball was coming out of my hand pretty well."
    "I wanted to be the best I could," said Cingrani, who whiffed 15 with Double-A Pensacola on June 26, 2012. "I just threw a bunch of fastballs and located wherever I wanted, just kept putting up zeros."
    The Reds want Cingrani to continue building confidence in throwing his off-speed pitches for strikes, with the hopes of him remaining a starter. But on Thursday, Cingrani just kept things simple.

    "I was just using the fastball, locating it -- I didn't have to go to anything else," he said. "There were some changeups and sliders, but mostly just the fastball."

  5. #34
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    Re: Cingrani...

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Not me. It's thrown too hard to be a true curve.
    Last year, his slider looked nothing like the breaking ball he threw last night that the announcers were calling a curveball and not a slider. His slider was a poor pitch last year, but at times he would break off a good one. It didn't look like the pitch he was throwing last night.

  6. #35
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    Re: Cingrani...

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    I think Chapman, Cueto, Latos, and Bailey might disagree with your opinion, as might Robert Stephenson and perhaps Daniel Corcino.

    Hoover's got a fine wing.

    It's by no means the tops in the system. And, while Cingrani's southpaw is also remarkable, it's not as remarkable, IMO, as are the ones listed above.

    A decade ago, Hoover, Cingrani, and Corcino would have been anchors in the Red rotation. (Add in mid-season grabs 26-year-olds Aaron Harang and Ryan Dempster, and the Reds could have had a decent rotation, had they been patient with Dempster.)

    Look how far they've come, to have those three (plus Chapman) in the pen or AAA.

    Is this the Golden Age of Cincinnati pitching? I'd argue that it's every bit as good as any in their hallowed history, when comparing to league averages.
    My comment is a running joke.

    Either in an article or on WLW, it was said that a Reds scout said Hoover had the best stuff of any pitcher in the Reds organization. So much to Doug's chagrin, I've continue to run with that comment because I know it irks him.

    Just having a little fun.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  7. #36
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    Re: Cingrani...

    J Hamilton's comments on Chapman were fascinating. It's not the sheer velocity, it's that the ball seems to come out of nowhere. Or words to that effect.

    Sometimes a pitcher is just deceptive for whatever reason. Yes, the experts can probably pinpoint it. But it's not necessarily measurable; it's something in the delivery combined with good stuff and command.

    Similarly, sometimes a pitcher who seems to have good stuff will deceive nobody; hitters will know what he's got and will hit it.

    Cingrani just may be that unusual pitcher whose effectiveness can't be measured by objective criteria. There may just be something in his delivery that deceives the hitters. And he seems to have good command.

    I would definitely keep him in the rotation for now. Reds have plenty of great arms in the pen right now, this guy is trained as a starter, let's see how it works out.

    Exciting prospect IMO.
    Last edited by Kc61; 04-05-2013 at 03:45 PM.

  8. #37
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    Re: Cingrani...

    The Bats PBP guy was on with Lance McAllister earlier. He said that Ted Power, the Bats pitching coach said Cingrani was working FB, CH and CV.

  9. #38
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    Re: Cingrani...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    The Bats PBP guy was on with Lance McAllister earlier. He said that Ted Power, the Bats pitching coach said Cingrani was working FB, CH and CV.
    The Bats' pbp guy is wrong, as noted earlier from Cingrani's own quotes.

    It's a slider, not a curve.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
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    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
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  10. #39
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    Re: Cingrani...

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    The Bats' pbp guy is wrong, as noted earlier from Cingrani's own quotes.

    It's a slider, not a curve.
    Cingrani may grip it like a slider, but that doesn't mean he is throwing one. I honestly don't know if that is the case. But the pitching coach said curve. It looked like a curve to me. The slider is more pure vertical break. The curve has two plane break. That is what we saw last night.

  11. #40
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    Re: Cingrani...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Cingrani may grip it like a slider, but that doesn't mean he is throwing one. I honestly don't know if that is the case. But the pitching coach said curve. It looked like a curve to me. The slider is more pure vertical break. The curve has two plane break. That is what we saw last night.
    Cingrani himself said:
    "I was just using the fastball, locating it -- I didn't have to go to anything else... There were some changeups and sliders, but mostly just the fastball."
    It's a slider, and it's the same pitch he's been throwing since being drafted.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
    -- Leo Durocher

  12. #41
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    Re: Cingrani...

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrap Irony View Post
    Cingrani himself said:


    It's a slider, and it's the same pitch he's been throwing since being drafted.
    That didn't add anything to the previous conversation. We already established that Cingrani said he was throwing a slider. The question was, is he actually throwing a slider, or is he just gripping it like a slider and it is actually a curveball?

    Here is the pitch:


  13. #42
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    Re: Cingrani...

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    That didn't add anything to the previous conversation. We already established that Cingrani said he was throwing a slider. The question was, is he actually throwing a slider, or is he just gripping it like a slider and it is actually a curveball?

    Here is the pitch:

    Looks like a curve to me. Do you have a GIF of him throwing a fastball? He seems to slow his body during the delivery more than you would for a slider but I would be curious to compare this to his fastball.

  14. #43
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    Re: Cingrani...

    Quote Originally Posted by klw View Post
    Looks like a curve to me. Do you have a GIF of him throwing a fastball? He seems to slow his body during the delivery more than you would for a slider but I would be curious to compare this to his fastball.
    To be fair, I used an online place to create that GIF, so I can't even say if that is in full "real time". It seems close to it, but it may not be perfect.

  15. #44
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    Re: Cingrani...

    I went back and compared the fastballs from the same at bat as that breaking ball. Arm speed was identical. Just the way the GIF was rendered.

  16. #45
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    Re: Cingrani...

    I find it absolutely amazing that, instead of admitting you're wrong when confronted with the pitcher's own words about what he's throwing, you'd continue to "figure it out."

    If Cingrani said it was a slider, then he threw a slider.

    BTW, your definition of slider is wrong.

    From wiki:
    In baseball, a slider... is a pitch that breaks laterally and down, with a speed between that of a curveball and that of a fastball.

    The break on the pitch is shorter than that of a curveball. The release technique of a slider is between a curveball and a fastball. The slider is similar to the cutter, a pitch which is thrown as a fastball, but differs in the sense that a slider tends to be more of a breaking ball.
    "You can learn little from victory. You can learn everything from defeat."
    -- Christy Matthewson
    "Show me a good loser and I'll show you an idiot."
    -- Leo Durocher


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