The Trade Idea That Just Won't Die

[kaldaniels]

I agree with WOY...can't keep them all.

But Votto and Stanton are arguably top-ten MLB players over the next 5-6 years.

[bigfunguy]

I hesitate to let Cingrani go just because we have nothing but right handers starting right now...

[Benihana]

Someday the budget will be tapped, Phillips, Bruce, Votto, Choo... if we want a corner OF getting old in CF for 16 million a year.

Then there is pitching that will want to be paid as well, Bailey, Latos, Cueto all could make more than 10 million too.

Add Stanton to that and the real issue is the Reds don't have the ability to lock up 7 or more players with 7 figure salaries, they need relief in the form of young talent making less money than they are giving back to the team.

Agree, but I think that's likely more of a question for 2016 then it is for 2013-2014 and maybe even 2015. Like I said, if the Reds brought in Stanton they would likely be facing a massive rebuilding effort come 2016 because of all the payroll ramifications. But we would also have a much better shot at a Championship in the next 3 years. As I said, I wouldn't do all 3, but I would definitely trade 2 of them and a lesser piece, assuming we could extend Choo for 3 years or less.

The rebuilding effort I alluded to would likely consist of keeping 2-4 cornerstone pieces (Votto being 1) and trading off most of the other veterans to restock the system. We'd essentially be punting for 2 years in order to hopefully regain competitiveness by 2019, where Votto would likely be in the twilight of his productive years.

[CySeymour]

Someday the budget will be tapped, Phillips, Bruce, Votto, Choo... if we want a corner OF getting old in CF for 16 million a year.

Then there is pitching that will want to be paid as well, Bailey, Latos, Cueto all could make more than 10 million too.

Add Stanton to that and the real issue is the Reds don't have the ability to lock up 7 or more players with 7 figure salaries, they need relief in the form of young talent making less money than they are giving back to the team.

Great post. Fans need to remember the whole picture when wishing for these things.

[Trajinous]

A closer for an MVP level player? Any MLB team would want more then that for a legit franchise player.

Hamilton and Cigrani are months away from MLB-ready. So we are giving them The hardest thrower in the game, a potential Cueto-esque starter and the fastest runner in the game for 40 hrs?

This is dumb and filling a hole we don't need. By playing in GABP, we don't need the ball launchers in order to score HRs. Heisey and Frasier show they have good enough power for us.

[cinreds21]

It would take more than that to get Giancarlo.

[CySeymour]

Hamilton and Cigrani are months away from MLB-ready. So we are giving them The hardest thrower in the game, a potential Cueto-esque starter and the fastest runner in the game for 40 hrs?

This is dumb and filling a hole we don't need. By playing in GABP, we don't need the ball launchers in order to score HRs. Heisey and Frasier show they have good enough power for us.

A guy who pitches 60 innings, a minor league starter who will not be Cueto-esque, and a guy who has not proven yet he can hit above AA for an MVP level player. No, that is not too much.

However, mostly for the reasons WOY pointed out, I don't think I would do it.

[Benihana]

Hamilton and Cigrani are months away from MLB-ready. So we are giving them The hardest thrower in the game, a potential Cueto-esque starter and the fastest runner in the game for 40 hrs?

This is dumb and filling a hole we don't need. By playing in GABP, we don't need the ball launchers in order to score HRs. Heisey and Frasier show they have good enough power for us.

Just to reiterate, I wouldn't do all 3. But I would do 2 of the 3 plus a lesser piece. Heisey is not a starter on a playoff team, and he certainly does not have enough power (let alone other skills) to be a cleanup hitter. Stanton could easily hit 50 home runs in GABP. That's a lot more valuable than "the fastest runner" or "the hardest thrower" in the game.

And Cingrani is nothing like Cueto. If anyone, that's Daniel Corcino.

[Benihana]

It would take more than that to get Giancarlo.

I don't think that's right. I'd be surprised if you could find me a better (available) package.

[Brutus]

I know this is a message board and it's fun to have discussions, but I wish the Stanton trade threads would be outlawed.

[Edd Roush]

Hamilton and Cigrani are months away from MLB-ready. So we are giving them The hardest thrower in the game, a potential Cueto-esque starter and the fastest runner in the game for 40 hrs?

This is dumb and filling a hole we don't need. By playing in GABP, we don't need the ball launchers in order to score HRs. Heisey and Frasier show they have good enough power for us.

Hardest thrower doesn't mean much. Chapman is much more IMO, but he still is only out there 70-80 innings out of the year as closer. No one has compared Cingrani in the past, and while he had a great start last night, he is far from a sure thing. Finally, what does fastest runner have to do with anything? Sure having some speed is nice, and Billy is a good prospect, but we aren't just giving these three players away. We would be getting a 23 year old who OPSed 969 last year and we would control for at least three more years.

Payroll concerns are valid, but Stanton wouldn't be the guy we would be getting rid of if we were needing to clear payroll. Stanton and Votto in the same lineup is akin to Ruth and Gehrig.

[Plus Plus]

I know this is a message board and it's fun to have discussions, but I wish the Stanton trade threads would be outlawed.

Or that people would post in existing Stanton trade threads instead of creating a new one with the same prospects involved every two weeks.

[757690]

It would take more than that to get Giancarlo.

No it won't. They are the Marlins. Never underestimate what it would take to get one of their players.

One mistake everyone is making assuming Chapman's trade value is that of a closer. Just because that's the role he is in now doesn't mean that's what his value is on the trade market. I think most teams see him as a potential Ace, a potential Cy Young winner as a starter.

I think Chapman plus Hamilton would do it. I can't see any other team offering more.

[Brutus]

Or that people would post in existing Stanton trade threads instead of creating a new one with the same prospects involved every two weeks.

That would certainly help the overkill.

[REDREAD]

Stanton is an awesome player, he had an MVP type season last year (969 OPS).
His prior seasons were 898, 833. which are still good.. Is he going to be a close to 1000 OPS guy going forward? I think he will do well, but we've got to remember, there's not a whole lot of guys that have maintained that production for 4 years in a row. He's as good of a bet as any, but there's a little bit of risk.

I would not do Chapman, Hamilton and Cingrani for Stanton, for payroll reasons (esp if Choo was extended). It would make 2013 pretty awesome though. If there was no payroll considerations , I would consider it.