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Thread: 4/6/2013 - Saturday - Reds vs Nats

  1. #151
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: 4/6/2013 - Saturday - Reds vs Nats

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    This entire bit about him being good for a #5 is nonsense. When Dusty sends him out to the mound, I am pretty sure he doesn't tell Leake to pitch like the #5 that he is. Leake is like any other starting pitcher. He is designated to get as many hitters out as possible. If he does that at a #5 level; well, that's not good.
    So until we have 5 sub-4 ERA starters I should expect griping?

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  3. #152
    ZCTRMTP!!!!! texasdave's Avatar
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    Re: 4/6/2013 - Saturday - Reds vs Nats

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigLebowski View Post
    Problem is, #5 starters are, by definition, not that good at getting major league hitters out. So expectations must be tempered.

    Leake is getting peppered out there. Anyone with a rational, objective eye can see that.
    That is all well and good. But don't sit there and try to tell me that somehow that makes Leake a good pitcher, just because he might be better than every other team's flotsam and jetsam.

    He does better than expected does not equal a good pitcher. He is still bad. Just not as bad as some other # 5s.
    A summer watching a bad Reds' team, is still a pretty good summer.

  4. #153
    Winning the Human Race TheBigLebowski's Avatar
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    Re: 4/6/2013 - Saturday - Reds vs Nats

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    If we had the #8 pick in this draft and you guaranteed me he would have the performance/production of Leake I would pick him this year. That assumes all top shelf talent was selected by then.
    Then you and I need not carry on this discussion any further. If that's all you expect out of the #8 pick in the draft then we will never find any synthesis in our discussions.
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  5. #154
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: 4/6/2013 - Saturday - Reds vs Nats

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigLebowski View Post
    Problem is, #5 starters are, by definition, not that good at getting major league hitters out. So expectations must be tempered.

    Leake is getting peppered out there. Anyone with a rational, objective eye can see that.
    I really would be interested in seeing what Manny Parra could do in the rotation.

  6. #155
    Winning the Human Race TheBigLebowski's Avatar
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    Re: 4/6/2013 - Saturday - Reds vs Nats

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    That is all well and good. But don't sit there and try to tell me that somehow that makes Leake a good pitcher, just because he might be better than every other team's flotsam and jetsam.
    Whoa, David. You of all people should know I am no Leake fan.
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  7. #156
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    Re: 4/6/2013 - Saturday - Reds vs Nats

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    This entire bit about him being good for a #5 is nonsense. When Dusty sends him out to the mound, I am pretty sure he doesn't tell Leake to pitch like the #5 that you are. Leake is like any other starting pitcher. He is designated to get as many hitters out as possible. If he does that at a #5 level; well, that's not good.
    The maturation of Tony Cingrani is the real danger to Leake. I see him filling the role Arroyo has after Bronson is done...he's the crafty change of pace pitcher you sandwich between a couple fireballers to keep opposing hitters' timing off. Cingrani will be the lefty this rotation has always lacked and has plenty of maturing left to do, but if he knocks down the door to the Major Leagues this season he may force us to deal one of our change of pace guys.

    "Okay you guys, pair up in threes!" --Yogi Berra

  8. #157
    ZCTRMTP!!!!! texasdave's Avatar
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    Re: 4/6/2013 - Saturday - Reds vs Nats

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigLebowski View Post
    Whoa, David. You of all people should know I am no Leake fan.
    I was addressing the board generally, not specifically.
    A summer watching a bad Reds' team, is still a pretty good summer.

  9. #158
    Member Crumbley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigLebowski View Post
    You're right. As a 5th starter, he is league-average and he likely won't have any real impact as to our WS chances. My objection to Leake is not his current designation but to the fact that he is even on the team. I hated that pick. Leake is what he was basically projected to be - a 4th/5th starter. Average stuff but throws multiple pitches..."crafty." The kind of pitcher it is easier to forget than remember. I guess I should stop whining about it and just accept it, but I certainly hope we learned a lesson with that pick...you don't blow a top 10 pick (8 overall) on a guy who projects, at best, to be a late-rotation pitcher.
    He's a late rotation pitcher because the other four are even better. It's crazy to me how quickly we've become Yankee fans.

  10. #159
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: 4/6/2013 - Saturday - Reds vs Nats

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigLebowski View Post
    Then you and I need not carry on this discussion any further. If that's all you expect out of the #8 pick in the draft then we will never find any synthesis in our discussions.
    I have reasonable enough expectations to know what to expect from the 7-9 picks in a draft. If a guy comes out around average for his slot I'm not gonna whine. Of course I hope for better but I won't complain.

  11. #160
    ZCTRMTP!!!!! texasdave's Avatar
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    Re: 4/6/2013 - Saturday - Reds vs Nats

    Quote Originally Posted by Crumbley View Post
    He's a late rotation pitcher because the other four are even better. It's crazy to me how quickly we've become Yankee fans.
    It's crazy to me how some people so willingly accept mediocrity.
    A summer watching a bad Reds' team, is still a pretty good summer.

  12. #161
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    Re: 4/6/2013 - Saturday - Reds vs Nats

    Quote Originally Posted by malcontent View Post
    I really would be interested in seeing what Manny Parra could do in the rotation.
    Tough to tell if this was sarcastic? I liked Parra's velocity last night but he was hit pretty hard and I don't like his lack of control.
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  13. #162
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    Re: 4/6/2013 - Saturday - Reds vs Nats

    Quote Originally Posted by kaldaniels View Post
    So until we have 5 sub-4 ERA starters I should expect griping?
    This IS RedsZone, you should always expect griping. It's the nature of the beast.

    "Okay you guys, pair up in threes!" --Yogi Berra

  14. #163
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    Re: 4/6/2013 - Saturday - Reds vs Nats

    Leake keeping it close...good inning there.

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    Re: 4/6/2013 - Saturday - Reds vs Nats

    Quote Originally Posted by malcontent View Post
    I really would be interested in seeing what Manny Parra could do in the rotation.
    So would the rest of the NL.

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  17. #165
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: 4/6/2013 - Saturday - Reds vs Nats

    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigLebowski View Post
    Tough to tell if this was sarcastic? I liked Parra's velocity last night but he was hit pretty hard and I don't like his lack of control.
    Not sarcasm. I just love to watch lefties and Parra has a nice repertoire of pitches.

    Maybe he just needed a change of scenery/pitching coach.


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