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Thread: Chapman and Broxton not available tomorrow?

  1. #31
    Box of Frogs edabbs44's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman and Broxton not available tomorrow?

    Prediction: tonight's game is either close or not close resulting in one faction saying that's why what Dusty did was ok/not ok with the other asking "How could they have known?"

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  4. #32
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman and Broxton not available tomorrow?

    Price has earned my trust.

    Dusty is on probation.

    (As a note, Price had my trust when he was butting heads with Sweet Lou back with the Mariners. It was when Lou gave Price the (nearly) total reigns with the pitching staff that the M's took off)
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  5. #33
    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman and Broxton not available tomorrow?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Price has earned my trust.

    Dusty is on probation.

    (As a note, Price had my trust when he was butting heads with Sweet Lou back with the Mariners. It was when Lou gave Price the (nearly) total reigns with the pitching staff that the M's took off)
    Same here.

    If and when Dusty retires, Price is my first choice as manager/pitching coach.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  6. #34
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    Re: Chapman and Broxton not available tomorrow?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    You think our bullpen was going to give up 3 or more runs in 2 innings? Possible, sure. Likely? Not so much.
    Of course. It's also more likely than not that they won't be in a position today where they normally use Broxton/Chapman. Even if they are, it isn't likely Marshall and the others will give up runs that Broxton/Chapman wouldn't have.

    In terms of what is likely, any of his options would be fine.

  7. #35
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    Re: Chapman and Broxton not available tomorrow?

    Sarcasm ahead:

    I look for Hoover to pitch 2 or 3 innings in each of the three games with the Cards since Broxton and Chapman aren't available.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  8. #36
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman and Broxton not available tomorrow?

    So, the game gets closer from bringing in lesser relievers, then you are using Broxton and Chapman anyhow. What this discussion really gets down to is some think that probability theory says bring in any reliever on any given day and he'll hold an "X" run lead. While this is true in theory, since Dusty doesn't have the crystal ball to predict the occurrence of the likely outcome on any given day, he goes for the win when it is right there in front of him. Since tomorrow could present an entirely new bullpen pecking order dilemma, he manages with what he has to work with today. I'm ok with that philosophy. After all, if its ok to use Lecure or Simon to protect a 3 run lead yesterday, why wouldn't it be ok today?
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  9. #37
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman and Broxton not available tomorrow?

    You don't save a pitcher for tomorrow. Tomorrow it may rain.
    Leo Durocher

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    Tadasimha (04-08-2013), Tommyjohn25 (04-08-2013), traderumor (04-08-2013)

  11. #38
    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman and Broxton not available tomorrow?

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    You don't save a pitcher for tomorrow. Tomorrow it may rain.
    Leo Durocher
    So Dusty should know what the weather report is for St. Louis tomorrow and plan accordingly.
    Can't win with 'em

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  12. #39
    ZCTRMTP!!!!! texasdave's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman and Broxton not available tomorrow?

    I am not certain that Marshall is available. He is just coming back from two weeks off for shoulder fatigue. Maybe that's why he only went one inning. Also, when pitchers come back don't they usually throw them every other day for awhile?
    A summer watching a bad Reds' team, is still a pretty good summer.

  13. #40
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    Re: Chapman and Broxton not available tomorrow?

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    So, the game gets closer from bringing in lesser relievers, then you are using Broxton and Chapman anyhow. What this discussion really gets down to is some think that probability theory says bring in any reliever on any given day and he'll hold an "X" run lead. While this is true in theory, since Dusty doesn't have the crystal ball to predict the occurrence of the likely outcome on any given day, he goes for the win when it is right there in front of him. Since tomorrow could present an entirely new bullpen pecking order dilemma, he manages with what he has to work with today. I'm ok with that philosophy. After all, if its ok to use Lecure or Simon to protect a 3 run lead yesterday, why wouldn't it be ok today?
    1. Big difference between a 3-run lead and a 1-run lead.
    2. Still no one has addressed the issue of why can't Broxton or Chapman pitch more than 1 inning in a game?
    3. Except for my previous question #2, I have no problem with going all out to win the game. I just don't see why when Broxton or Chapman has a 1-2-3 inning and a 3-run lead, why they can't be brought back out for the final inning. And if they get in trouble, THEN bring in the other guy.

    If you're going to make a guy unusable for a game or two, why not get the most out of him by going more than 1 inning and resting another guy? Makes total sense.

    And if we end up in a 1-run game the next few days, we'll wish we had Chapman available.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

  14. #41
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    Re: Chapman and Broxton not available tomorrow?

    Quote Originally Posted by texasdave View Post
    I am not certain that Marshall is available. He is just coming back from two weeks off for shoulder fatigue. Maybe that's why he only went one inning. Also, when pitchers come back don't they usually throw them every other day for awhile?
    On a side note. It brought me great pleasure when Marshall dropped that 75 mph curveball past a swinging Harper for strike 3. Thoroughly enjoyed that.

    Marshall looked really good.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

    "Man do I miss the days where were didn't need a calculator and an encyclopedia of baseball metrics to enjoy a baseball game ... - MikeS21" - 8/2/12 game thread

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  16. #42
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    Re: Chapman and Broxton not available tomorrow?

    2. Still no one has addressed the issue of why can't Broxton or Chapman pitch more than 1 inning in a game?
    3. Except for my previous question #2, I have no problem with going all out to win the game. I just don't see why when Broxton or Chapman has a 1-2-3 inning and a 3-run lead, why they can't be brought back out for the final inning. And if they get in trouble, THEN bring in the other guy.

    [QUOTE]

    I'll address it. It's allocation of innings and potential long recovery time.

    Brox and Chappy pitched on Saturday. If either of them then pitches two innings on Sunday, when is that pitcher ready to go again? Possibly could (or should) involve resting the next two days.

    By keeping them to an inning most games, they are usually available if necessary. Even today, if Chappy or Broxton is truly needed, one or both could probably go. That's the theory.

    I like multi-innings relievers. Lecure can do it. Parra. Simon. Maybe Hoover who was a starter years ago.

    But these tend to be different people - not your main short relievers.
    Last edited by Kc61; 04-08-2013 at 10:36 AM.

  17. #43
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    Re: Chapman and Broxton not available tomorrow?

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    So, the game gets closer from bringing in lesser relievers, then you are using Broxton and Chapman anyhow.
    Or it doesn't and you don't. Same could be said with a 4-run lead, 5-run lead or a 6-run lead. The fact that a closer is used with a 3-run lead in the ninth has less to do with the chances of holding the lead than it has to do with the fact that it is a save situation.

    I don't have a HUGE problem with what Dusty did, but now we are going into the first game of the St. Louis series without our top 2 (and possibly 3) bullpen arms. That probably leaves LeCure or Hoover as the defacto closer - which means Para and Simon are in setup roles. They need Latos to come up big.

    With all that said, I don't for a minute believe Dusty wouldn't use Chapman or Broxton if the game is close - although I would rather he air on the side of caution this early in the season.
    Last edited by puca; 04-08-2013 at 10:38 AM.

  18. #44
    Member 757690's Avatar
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    Re: Chapman and Broxton not available tomorrow?

    Do we know for sure that both Broxton and Chapman are unavailable tonight?

    I know they want to keep Chapman from pitching too many consecutive days, but why Broxton? It's very common for set up guys and closers to pitch three, four, sometimes five days in a row.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  19. #45
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    Re: Chapman and Broxton not available tomorrow?

    The reason the "only bring them in once their's trouble" theory never gets any traction is because with the way relievers are used in 2013, if you warm them up you might as well use them. If you plan on using JB or chapman to bail you out, that means warming them up. Put another way, if both guys are unavailable today, they'd be unavailable even if they'd warmed up in the 9th and trouble never came. There isn't a manager in the game who subscribes to the plan you're suggesting for this reason and plenty of them have arms more fragile than Chapman's.

    It's a long season. If they're unavailable tonight, I think that's a good cautious decision.


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