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Thread: How bad would Cozart have to be struggling before move?

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    Member RadfordVA's Avatar
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    How bad would Cozart have to be struggling before move?

    This isn't meant to make it out like a move should be made now based on 7 games. Just thought it would be interesting to gauge what the breaking point for people would be. As it is there seems to be no alternative really. He provides consistent defense. Also there isn't really a need for great offensive output from SS. But with that being said you can only be so bad at the plate before each GM would make a move to replace. If you were GM how long would you let him go and how bad would his stats have to get? If he is hitting under .200 at AS break do you attempt to make a move?

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    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: How bad would Cozart have to be struggling before move?

    Depends
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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    All work and no play..... Vottomatic's Avatar
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    Re: How bad would Cozart have to be struggling before move?

    I won't be concerned until about mid-May if he's still struggling.

    We know Joey will come around. I was encouraged with his 9th inning single to knock in Choo from third base.

    I am concerned about Cozart and Hanigan for the moment. Looking for life from them.
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    Unsolicited Opinions traderumor's Avatar
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    Re: How bad would Cozart have to be struggling before move?

    Quote Originally Posted by RadfordVA View Post
    This isn't meant to make it out like a move should be made now based on 7 games. Just thought it would be interesting to gauge what the breaking point for people would be. As it is there seems to be no alternative really. He provides consistent defense. Also there isn't really a need for great offensive output from SS. But with that being said you can only be so bad at the plate before each GM would make a move to replace. If you were GM how long would you let him go and how bad would his stats have to get? If he is hitting under .200 at AS break do you attempt to make a move?
    But you are bringing it up based on 7 games. A good GM will always be looking for ways to improve the team. I'm guessing that Cozart will be able to hit enough for his position to hold his job for this year. Next year might depend on what moves need to be made in the offseason.
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    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: How bad would Cozart have to be struggling before move?

    Cozart has a .048 BABIP. If he goes 3 for 4 in his next game, his batting average jumps 80 points. Give it time.

    He's not striking out at an usual rate. Sure, he hasn't walked, but this is a guy who walks in only 1 of 20 PA normally. Considering he's had 29 PA, nothing unusual is going on other than bad "luck" on batted ball in the field of play. If he's hitting under .200 at the end of May and striking out 30% of the time, then we can start to worry.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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    Re: How bad would Cozart have to be struggling before move?

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    But you are bringing it up based on 7 games. A good GM will always be looking for ways to improve the team. I'm guessing that Cozart will be able to hit enough for his position to hold his job for this year. Next year might depend on what moves need to be made in the offseason.
    Maybe they re-sign Choo for next season.
    Maybe they trade for Stanton to play LF and bat cleanup.
    Maybe they trade Cozart and move Hamilton back to SS.

    Maybe................

    CF Choo
    2B Phillips
    1B Votto
    LF Stanton
    RF Bruce
    3B Frazier
    C Mez
    SS Hamilton
    P

    If if's were fish and but's were fries, we'd have a helluva fish fry.
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    Re: How bad would Cozart have to be struggling before move?

    IMO ... we have the best infield defense in the league. Zack is a big part of that. He makes the tough plays look easy and the routine plays look routine. Any offense he gives us is icing.
    "I talked to an advance scout that told me if Joey Votto and Albert Pujols were on the same team he'd advise his team to do the unthinkable...pitch around Votto to get to Pujols." - Buster Olney, ESPN

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    Member RadfordVA's Avatar
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    Re: How bad would Cozart have to be struggling before move?

    Quote Originally Posted by traderumor View Post
    But you are bringing it up based on 7 games. A good GM will always be looking for ways to improve the team. I'm guessing that Cozart will be able to hit enough for his position to hold his job for this year. Next year might depend on what moves need to be made in the offseason.
    Bringing it up after 7 games for discussion not to bash Cozart. Just thought it would be interesting to hear how different each persons philosophy is before we get to the point where their might be actual complaining and asking for a move to be made. He only got on base at a .288 OBP rate last season so their might be reason to worry it could get even worse with the league knowing more about him the second go around. Just curios how bad it would have to be for each person. For me he can pretty much bat whatever till all star break. But if at that point his OBP is hovering around .250 I have to figure it isnt going to get better and make a move.

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    Re: How bad would Cozart have to be struggling before move?

    At this point, the Reds are committed to Cozart come Hell or high water. Trading Gregorius and moving Hamilton to OF made that VERY clear.

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    Member RadfordVA's Avatar
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    Re: How bad would Cozart have to be struggling before move?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Cozart has a .048 BABIP. If he goes 3 for 4 in his next game, his batting average jumps 80 points. Give it time.

    He's not striking out at an usual rate. Sure, he hasn't walked, but this is a guy who walks in only 1 of 20 PA normally. Considering he's had 29 PA, nothing unusual is going on other than bad "luck" on batted ball in the field of play. If he's hitting under .200 at the end of May and striking out 30% of the time, then we can start to worry.
    Yeah I agree with all this. Just think Cozarts case is a really interesting one considering he will have a huge leash for someone yet to really set themselves apart at ML level. All the factors that go into it being defense, lack of other options, and what team needs from him provide a very unique case. But even with that there will be some sort of bottom level of production he will have to provide, just wonder what that is.

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    Re: How bad would Cozart have to be struggling before move?

    I dunno. I never saw Cozart as a long term fixture at SS. I think thew powers that be fell in love with his power, but the rest of his offense I've never been impressed with - even in the minor leagues. He always struck me has a slick fielding, low/no hit SS who occasionally could belt the ball over the fence.

    That's why I was stumped at the insistence on moving Hamilton to CF. The only beef I've heard about Billy at SS has been his arm, and even that has been called "average."

    As others have said, they will stick with him this year.
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    Re: How bad would Cozart have to be struggling before move?

    There are plenty of all-glove, no stick SS sticking around in MLB even in 2013. In the worst case scenerio, Cozart is that guy.

    Would we all rather him be Starlin Castro than Brandon Crawford? Sure. But Crawford also started at SS for the Giants last year in the world series.

    To answer the question, the leash for his offensive production is long... really long IMO.

  16. #13
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: How bad would Cozart have to be struggling before move?

    Cozart is going to give you great defense and good slugging for a SS.
    He's never going to have a great OBP.
    At his salary, I just can't see the Reds ever trying to upgrade (at least this year).

    As others said, moving Didi and Hamilton off SS speaks volumes for what the club thinks of Zack.

    His offense will come around, but I guess we should be prepared for the possiblity that he might regress a little bit offensively this year. I say that because he definitely exceeded expectations last year.
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    * Bat Votto Second * goreds2's Avatar
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    Re: How bad would Cozart have to be struggling before move?

    Barry Larkin was pretty much always a slow starter in April. Let Cozart go out and play as we have enough offense at the moment. Maybe being pinch hit for put a fire under him.
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