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Thread: "The Rest of Your Life"

  1. #46
    Custodial Engineer Bob Sheed's Avatar
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    Re: "The Rest of Your Life"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    For years I looked for the right pill to make me ok. Never found it. Stopped looking. If it works for you, fine. But for the most part I agree with Bob. I think pharmaceuticals are being used to make us "fit" into an unnatural system.
    Good for you! Reminds me of another story I heard on NPR a while back about a little girl 30 years ago or so, who just couldn't keep her feet still in school. Without even thinking, she would catch herself tapping with her hands to some imaginary rhythm, or tapping her feet to the same.

    Back then, schools were allowed to "swat" kids as punishment, and that's what they did. Didn't help, and neither did any of their other disciplinary actions. Finally it all came to a head one day, and her parents were given a choice: Either she transfers into Special Needs classes and begins a regimen of meds, or she faces expulsion.

    Her parents chose neither, enrolled her in an Arts based school with an emphasis on dance, and the little girl went on to be among the best dancers of her generation.

    Nowadays? She'd be all medicated up, working in a office, probably stabbing herself in the hand with her office pen as punishment, every time her feet start to move involuntarily again.

    And why?

    In the 80's we moved away from "depth psychology" (Freud, Jung, Adler, etc...) toward cognitive psychology and meds. We're now in the middle of a hyperbiological era for mental health -- more brain than mind. Brain versus mind is less messy and less stigmatized. It's great that we've reached a place that mental health can be talked about openly. But that we have to speak of it in terms of serotonin and dopamine says we're not all the way there yet.

    This is a big reason why.

    Worst part is I see it almost every day. They start kids on these drugs that you can't come off of at age 8, age 9... these kids never even had a choice. Now they are drug addicts, and we all know who the dealer is.

    It's just sickening. And anyone who defends it, either doesn't know what they are talking about, is ON what I am talking about, or is IN ON what I am talking about.
    "And why do false truths persist, getting passed down the decades as if they were fact? It comes back to the same point: People believe things that are wrong because, individually, people rarely investigate their own beliefs, particularly when what they believe makes sense intuitively. Even more so when those around them agree with them." -K.F.

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  3. #47
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    Re: "The Rest of Your Life"

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    Nowadays? She'd be all medicated up, working in a office, probably stabbing herself in the hand with her office pen as punishment, every time her feet start to move involuntarily again.
    Yes, the first step is understanding that classrooms, offices and factories aren't natural environments for human beings. Some do better in them than others. Then again, some people smoke two-packs a day and live to 95.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  4. #48
    Pre-tty, pre-tty good!! MWM's Avatar
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    Re: "The Rest of Your Life"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    But that we have to speak of it in terms of serotonin and dopamine says we're not all the way there yet.
    In your opinion, of course. There are real conditions caused by the body's lack of dopamine production. Not sure how you have the conversation without talking about that fact.
    Grape works as a soda. Sort of as a gum. I wonder why it doesn't work as a pie. Grape pie? There's no grape pie. - Larry David

  5. #49
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: "The Rest of Your Life"

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    In your opinion, of course. There are real conditions caused by the body's lack of dopamine production. Not sure how you have the conversation without talking about that fact.
    No way.. are you suggesting that individuals have body chemistry unique to that individual?

    Where do you cash YOUR checks from the man?

  6. #50
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    Re: "The Rest of Your Life"

    Quote Originally Posted by MWM View Post
    In your opinion, of course. There are real conditions caused by the body's lack of dopamine production. Not sure how you have the conversation without talking about that fact.
    And the body constantly reacts to the outside world, upping procuction of this and cutting product of that as conditions, including emotional conditions, change. To say that the problem is dopamine and here's a dopamine fix is overly reductive.

    But it allows us to talk about mental conditions without freaking people out, like we're just brain diabetics. That's the appeal.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  7. #51
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    Re: "The Rest of Your Life"

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    Where do you cash YOUR checks from the man?
    Helpful.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  8. #52
    breath westofyou's Avatar
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    Re: "The Rest of Your Life"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    Helpful.
    Well, it was a tongue in cheek comment... but you knew that.

    I'm seeing a LOT of opinions not fact.

    Oh BTW I have ADD, and have never been able to sit still.

    Or dance

  9. #53
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: "The Rest of Your Life"

    Prozac > Killing Myself.

    It's simple math.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  10. #54
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    Re: "The Rest of Your Life"

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Prozac > Killing Myself.

    It's simple math.
    Of course. But I might suggest that if Prozac gets you onto dry land, explore further inland.
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  11. #55
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    Re: "The Rest of Your Life"

    Quote Originally Posted by westofyou View Post
    I'm seeing a LOT of opinions not fact.
    We can't even define "conscienceness" much less the subconscience or unconscience. When it comes to the mind we have to truck in theory, philosophy, art, history -- everything. Carl Jung plumbed Greek mythology.

    I find the retort "science!" less than persuasive. I grew up believing dinosaurs were lizards. And it wasn't to long ago that psychiatry diagnosed homosexuality as a disease and presribed electro-shock.

    There's one constant: experts saying "we now know.....". As if, miraculously, our present time is one of light, compared to the path of ignorance before us.

    I'm sure we will someday look back on anti-depressent drugs and say "we now know......".
    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  12. #56
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: "The Rest of Your Life"

    As somebody who is on anti-anxiety medication, I came to terms with it this way:

    Being prone to depression/anxiety is not a character flaw. It's not a poor personal choice that I am trying to excuse away. My body has a physical flaw that causes me great distress and which cannot simply be fixed once and for all by surgery or other such means. Medication is necessary to alleviate that distress.

    Now, I'm going to continue to take other steps in my life to help mitigate my condition's effects. But there is zero virtue in suffering for the sake of not "being on meds".

    If you I Type I diabetes, would I feel guilty/ashamed about having to take insulin? Certainly not. Would people think less of me as a person? I would think not.

    If some people are going to judge me because I take Wellbutrin every day to make my life less miserable, forget them. Is the drug altering my mood? Yes. But my "natural" mood sucks for and people around and could contribute to me taking my own life. While my parents initially felt the same way as your mom does, when I explained it to them this way, they clearly prefer this alternative.

    I think you may find that your mom has an orientation towards mental health that links mental health problems very closely with character. That taking a drug for your mental health is akin to choosing to live on welfare for the rest of your life rather than "getting a real job". Many people feel that way, even if they wouldn't articulate it quite that way. I would just make it clear that you aren't solely relying a drug to fix everything and that just like a person with diabetes would avoid sweets, you're also taking a different approach to your life and that the Prozac is just one part of that.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  13. #57
    Hisssssssss Yachtzee's Avatar
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    Re: "The Rest of Your Life"

    Quote Originally Posted by BLEEDS View Post
    Sorry Bro, just meant it was "BC" (aka Before Christ/Jesus), you know when dudes like Socrates and Hippocrates were around.
    You mean back to the days when people only lived until the age of 45?

    I went to the doctor the other day and was diagnosed with an imbalance of the blood humours. Said I'll be on leeches for the rest of my life.
    Burn down the disco. Hang the blessed DJ. Because the music that he constantly plays, it says nothing to me about my life.

  14. #58
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    Re: "The Rest of Your Life"

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Being prone to depression/anxiety is not a character flaw. It's not a poor personal choice that I am trying to excuse away.
    I agree. But can you not imagine that there's something between "character flaw" and "physical flaw"? Where would you put a PTSD veteran? Is it just a case of some thingees not firing right? Or maybe it's the hell he's been put through?

    After Newton, everyone used natural laws to explain stuff. After Darwin, it was natural selection. We humans lover our models. And now we're in the computer age.

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    The widow is gathering nettles for her children's dinner; a perfumed seigneur, delicately lounging in the Oeil de Boeuf, hath an alchemy whereby he will extract the third nettle and call it rent. ~ Carlyle

  15. #59
    Mon chou Choo vaticanplum's Avatar
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    Re: "The Rest of Your Life"

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Sheed View Post
    Good for you! Reminds me of another story I heard on NPR a while back about a little girl 30 years ago or so, who just couldn't keep her feet still in school. Without even thinking, she would catch herself tapping with her hands to some imaginary rhythm, or tapping her feet to the same.
    The idea of "cheering" someone because he didn't need drugs in his case is infuriating to me. Everyone is different. Some people require drugs to keep a chemical imbalance in check, not to make them fit some society's mold, but to keep them from harming themselves or others. If recent events across this country don't help you understand that, I don't know what will. Needing drugs or not needing drugs are neither cheerworthy in and of themselves. Being honest with yourself about what you need, seeking help when you need it, pursuing whatever avenue is right for you to make yourself better -- that is ALL cheerworthy.

    The flip side of the cheerworthy! event of not "needing" medication is not "needing" medication. My grandmother's stepfather was bipolar. this was prior to medication, prior to diagnosis even. He led an extremely difficult life punctuated by highs during which he would go outside and buy automobiles for strangers and lows during which he could barely move for days. This obviously had a tremendous impact on his family, and my grandmother, as the oldest of four children and the only one not biologically related to him (therefore the only one not predisposed to the disease herself) bore the brunt of it. He was a loving, wonderful man, but he made their lives absolute hell at times. that's what an absence of medication can get you. It was lifelong. He was that way when he had died. If medication had been able to make his brain function in a more balanced way, to make his life better, his family's lives better, so much pain would have been avoided.

    If this thread has made anything clear, it's that even in this day and age, it's still very brave for someone like Raisor to step up and say what he is dealing with, exposing himself to judgment by people who have no knowledge of the personal situation he's undoubtedly dealt with around the clock for years. I really applaud anyone who takes the steps he or she needs to get help in whatever form is needed for his or her particular situation. It's a very difficult process made more difficult by others' preconceived notions. I'm so glad you're doing so well, Raisor, for your sake and for the sake of the soul of baseball message boards everywhere.
    Last edited by vaticanplum; 04-11-2013 at 08:53 PM.
    There is no such thing as a pitching prospect.

  16. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by vaticanplum View Post
    Some people require drugs to keep a chemical imbalance in check.
    I, personally, call shenanigans.
    How does someone "develop" a chemical imbalance that requires medicine for the rest of their lives.

    I'm curious.

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    I think that in a year or two, one of these guys - Frazier, Dorn, Valaika, Cumberland, Stubbs - will be ready to replace Dunn. They won't hit as many home runs as Dunn, but they should have similar OPS. - 757690, July 22, 2008

    Alonso will be playing 1B for the REDS and batting 4th one year from today. - Kingspoint, July 9, 2009


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