"The Rest of Your Life"

[RFS62]

Great job, Raisor.

You're a rock among pebbles.

Is there a pill to treat a pompous gasbag? Is that condition physical or environmental?

[jojo]

Sorry Bro, just meant it was "BC" (aka Before Christ/Jesus), you know when dudes like Socrates and Hippocrates were around.

Yes. The good old days when the life expectancy was like 28.

[The Operator]

Yes. The good old days when the life expectancy was like 28.

Exactly.

[The Operator]

I completely understand your frustration and can sympathize with you. That sounds awful.

Have you been checked out by an orthopedic back specialist for a herniated disc or some type of back/spinal injury? I'm assuming you have given the amount of tests you've been through, but I thought I'd ask. I'm not a doctor, but I have my own experience with a herniated disc and there's a small chance it might help you a bit.

I haven't actually gone to a back specialist, not yet at least.

I went to a Pain Management Clinic when I lived in Lexington, and gave them the report from Michigan where the doctor opined that although the tests were inclusive, he did indeed think that one of those two nerves in the leg were causing the pain.

Upon examining me, the pain management doctor thought that the pain was actually being caused by a pinched nerve somewhere in my lower back. He did multiple diagnostic nerve blocks and then actually did a semi-permanent nerve ablation for about 3 or 4 different vertebrae in my lower back, although I can't remember which ones.

They didn't help a bit, but he thought perhaps I needed even more nerves blocked in that area because he originally requested that the insurance approve blocks for 2 or 3 more than he ultimately did, but they only approved the ones I ended up with. LOVE insurance companies.

So there's a chance it could be something in the back. I'm in the process of getting into another pain clinic here in Ohio, so we'll see whether they think we should keep along the path that my previous pain physician went on, or if perhaps we should go back and look at the nerves outlined in the U of M testing.


I hadn't thought of physical therapy, but it's an intriguing idea. I may look into that and bring it up in my initial visit with the new pain clinic.

[Cyclone792]

I've had a bulging disc my whole life and I hear you, I can go weeks without pain and then BOOM... 2 weeks of butt pain, leg pain, lower back spasms. No running, no biking, nothing but pain.

Then it's gone... only to return at a later date.

Mine is caused by the fact that I have an extra backbone that pushes up on my bottom disc causes it to bulge.

It's pain that I live with and pain that is not likely to ever leave for good.

I know exactly what type of pain you're talking about. It was completely miserable.

When you say your pain is suddenly gone, are you doing anything to treat it while it hurts or does it just disappear on its own? I'm forced to treat mine when I get new back and leg twinges otherwise it'll simply get worse. Plus the longer I let the pain sit there without doing my exercises the harder it is to eliminate.

[BLEEDS]

Yes. The good old days when the life expectancy was like 28.


Yes. Too bad we didn't have Prozac back then, everyone could have lived as long as Hippocrates did.

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[Cyclone792]

I haven't actually gone to a back specialist, not yet at least.

I went to a Pain Management Clinic when I lived in Lexington, and gave them the report from Michigan where the doctor opined that although the tests were inclusive, he did indeed think that one of those two nerves in the leg were causing the pain.

Upon examining me, the pain management doctor thought that the pain was actually being caused by a pinched nerve somewhere in my lower back. He did multiple diagnostic nerve blocks and then actually did a semi-permanent nerve ablation for about 3 or 4 different vertebrae in my lower back, although I can't remember which ones.

They didn't help a bit, but he thought perhaps I needed even more nerves blocked in that area because he originally requested that the insurance approve blocks for 2 or 3 more than he ultimately did, but they only approved the ones I ended up with. LOVE insurance companies.

So there's a chance it could be something in the back. I'm in the process of getting into another pain clinic here in Ohio, so we'll see whether they think we should keep along the path that my previous pain physician went on, or if perhaps we should go back and look at the nerves outlined in the U of M testing.

I hadn't thought of physical therapy, but it's an intriguing idea. I may look into that and bring it up in my initial visit with the new pain clinic.

Herniated discs are really tricky and can cause all sorts of pain problems radiating through different parts of your body. I might suggest asking your doctors about the possibility of a herniated disc somewhere in your back. It shouldn't hurt to ask, however, the only way to know for sure is an MRI and those aren't cheap (unless you're on a HDHP and you'll be hitting your deductible anyway). Your doctor might respond that you need an MRI so I'd be prepared for that response if you do ask about the disc.

I had an MRI done which showed a clear disc bulge at L5/S1 and that gave me an accurate diagnosis of the source of all my pain. My physical therapist had the MRI results and the accurate diagnosis so he was able to pinpoint my issue head on (I'm not sure how successful therapy would be without an accurate diagnosis of the source). He outlined the treatment schedule and goals, which was first to "move" the pain out of my leg and right into my back at the exact source. Then after moving the pain we worked the pain out entirely. There was little relief for two weeks, but that third week was like flipping a light switch. From there it was just a matter of getting stronger and preventing the pain from returning.

My physical therapy was a combination of stretching (hamstring, quad, piriformis, lower back) and strength building in my core and hips. All of it was geared to provide support for my back and the actual disc which relieved the pressure on my sciatic nerve and wiped out all the pain. Some of the exercises and stretches were common things you see all the time. Others were exercises I had never seen before, especially some of the core work. I had LOTS of work on stability and exercise balls too. Sweat would pour off me during the sessions - it was hard work even for someone used to going to the gym regularly.

The therapy team was confident the treatment would work as long as I followed their instructions, which included doing 20-30 minutes of exercises at home on my own every night. Everything they said would happen during the treatment schedule did happen. It was kind of amazing.

At the same time, I still have to do some of these exercises now to work out occasional twinges otherwise everything would regress and I'd eventually be immobile again. I've resorted to the fact that doing occasional therapy exercises is probably going to be the norm indefinitely.

[Caveat Emperor]

Yes. The good old days when the life expectancy was like 28.

Or as RFS called it, "High School."

[westofyou]

I know exactly what type of pain you're talking about. It was completely miserable.

When you say your pain is suddenly gone, are you doing anything to treat it while it hurts or does it just disappear on its own? I'm forced to treat mine when I get new back and leg twinges otherwise it'll simply get worse. Plus the longer I let the pain sit there without doing my exercises the harder it is to eliminate.

I try and keep loose, walk 10-12 miles a week, do the gym, ride my bike

It can go away like that and boom come back... When it hurts I just deal, ice, walks, stationary bike, try and get some movement

But yes. the longer I don't do anything the worse it gets

[Rojo]

I'm sure he wasn't looking for opinions from amateurs who think they know all about medication just because they stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Are any of us NOT amateurs?

FWIW, I've been through the wars. I've been on at least four meds. I was housebound for a while. I've visited hospitals needlessly -- positive I had this or that. I wore a heart monitor, got a CatScan. I used to constanly touch my fingers to my thumb in rapid succession to make sure I didn't have MS.

FTR, I don't think it's about "character". I don't even know if I believe in "character". IMO, character is the flip-side of brain chemicals -- an oversimplifying sweep under the rug.

Also, I don't think it's just about lifestyle. Lifestyle changes can help but that's still an overy brain-centered view of personality.

Let me put it this way: if you took a dog and put it in a tiny cage for it's whole life, how do you think it's going to turn out? Would you then say, "a-ha, it's his brain chemicals" when it turned out loopy?

[OldRightHander]

The brain is a pretty complex thing and several factors can play a part in mental health. Sure, there are people who have problems based on environmental factors and can get healthier based on changing a lifestyle or surroundings, but there are folks who just have something wrong chemically. The problem is when people on either side go saying that it's either just all in your head or that medicine is the cure all for anyone with a mental health issue. It isn't one size fits all.

[Rojo]

You could use the same logic you're applying in this post to call into question the validity of the science behind global climate change. I highly doubt you're on the fence on this topic (and neither am I).

Yes, I've struggled with this. If you look, you can see that I didn't start commenting on AGW threads until late in the game. In a democracy I don't think it dangerous to defer to experts. In the case of AGW, the preponderance of evidence persuaded me.

But the human mind is different. We've only begun to scratch the surface. We know more and more about how the mechanics of it work, but we don't know how these interact with the outside world.

BTW, second on the meditation.

[wolfboy]

Phil,

I salute your courage in tackling this problem and making the commitment to stick with it. Too many folks refuse to seek help and that can result in terrible consequences. It's no secret that the failure to treat depression and other mental illnesses can result in harm or death to the individual and to countless others. I thank you for making the right choice for you and those around you.

[MWM]

Yes, I've struggled with this. If you look, you can see that I didn't start commenting on AGW threads until late in the game. In a democracy I don't think it dangerous to defer to experts. In the case of AGW, the preponderance of evidence persuaded me.

But the human mind is different. We've only begun to scratch the surface. We know more and more about how the mechanics of it work, but we don't know how these interact with the outside world.

BTW, second on the meditation.

I don't even know if we've gotten to scratch the surface territory yet on the mind. The brain, maybe. But not the mind. Heck, scientists can't even tell you what the mind really is, other than it exists. There's no known location for it, they can't identify what it is at the cellular level.

I think the Buddhists may have it figured out. I'll never actually join any kind of organization like this, but I've done a lot of reading recently on their views of the mind and on peace and happiness and they make a lot of sense to me....and resonate as well. The neuroscience research they've been doing at the University of Wisconsin with the brain imaging technology and studying buddhist meditation masters is fascinating. Buddhists probably know more about how the mind works than modern day neuroscientists.

[The Operator]

Herniated discs are really tricky and can cause all sorts of pain problems radiating through different parts of your body. I might suggest asking your doctors about the possibility of a herniated disc somewhere in your back. It shouldn't hurt to ask, however, the only way to know for sure is an MRI and those aren't cheap (unless you're on a HDHP and you'll be hitting your deductible anyway).

Funny you should say that, that's exactly the type of plan I have. I've got a $2K yearly deductible backed up by a Flex Spending Account so whatever the doctors say I need, I do it.

Your doctor might respond that you need an MRI so I'd be prepared for that response if you do ask about the disc.

I had an MRI done which showed a clear disc bulge at L5/S1 and that gave me an accurate diagnosis of the source of all my pain. My physical therapist had the MRI results and the accurate diagnosis so he was able to pinpoint my issue head on (I'm not sure how successful therapy would be without an accurate diagnosis of the source). He outlined the treatment schedule and goals, which was first to "move" the pain out of my leg and right into my back at the exact source. Then after moving the pain we worked the pain out entirely. There was little relief for two weeks, but that third week was like flipping a light switch. From there it was just a matter of getting stronger and preventing the pain from returning.

My physical therapy was a combination of stretching (hamstring, quad, piriformis, lower back) and strength building in my core and hips. All of it was geared to provide support for my back and the actual disc which relieved the pressure on my sciatic nerve and wiped out all the pain. Some of the exercises and stretches were common things you see all the time. Others were exercises I had never seen before, especially some of the core work. I had LOTS of work on stability and exercise balls too. Sweat would pour off me during the sessions - it was hard work even for someone used to going to the gym regularly.

The therapy team was confident the treatment would work as long as I followed their instructions, which included doing 20-30 minutes of exercises at home on my own every night. Everything they said would happen during the treatment schedule did happen. It was kind of amazing.

At the same time, I still have to do some of these exercises now to work out occasional twinges otherwise everything would regress and I'd eventually be immobile again. I've resorted to the fact that doing occasional therapy exercises is probably going to be the norm indefinitely.

I'll certainly look into this. There's really nothing I wouldn't be willing to TRY if it might make the pain go away. On top of that I went to HS with a very lovely lady who recently got her Doctorate in Physical Therapy - it would potentially give me an excuse to see her, LOL.