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Thread: 4/10/13 - Reds at Cardinals

  1. #316
    Member Magdal's Avatar
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    Re: 4/10/13 - Reds at Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by SirFelixCat View Post
    Meh, a bad day. Forget about it after today and move on. :shrug:
    That's the ticket. The Reds have the best pitching staff in ALL of the majors, and the best defence, and among the best in base running. When Luddy gets back they will have the 2nd best hitting in the Central.

    I freely admit that the Cards have the "pixie dust", but Matheny will lose AT LEAST 10 games with his LaRussa copycat managing. It's April....come August the Reds will have a 6 or 7 game lead, as Garcia, Westbrook and Lynn run completely out of gas!

    The wrinkle: the Cards WILL win a WC spot again. Big wrinkle.

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  3. #317
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    Re: 4/10/13 - Reds at Cardinals

    I keep telling myself that we're only 9 games in, and this means nothing. I just seriously hate them losing to the Cardinals. Ever. This just makes me ill.

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    Re: 4/10/13 - Reds at Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by foxfire123 View Post
    I keep telling myself that we're only 9 games in, and this means nothing. I just seriously hate them losing to the Cardinals. Ever. This just makes me ill.
    I can completely relate here. Losing to Cards in any way, shape, or form makes me want to puke. They're pretty good though. Whaddya gonna do?
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    Re: 4/10/13 - Reds at Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeThierry View Post
    Obviously the Cardinals used Spring Training as a metric to determining if Adams could make the club or not. I'm not just using ST. I'm using his entire minor league career and the trends he shown there.

    le sigh... I guess practically every single scout, prospect rating system, etc have it wrong when they label Taveras the best hitting prospect in baseball. In your eyes, his #3 ranking in Baseball America is just fluky and inaccurate. What Taveras did with his 10.5% strikeout rate had nothing to do with actual skill but rather it was all ball park....SMH

    You're ball park argument, that you have been using ever since I've seen you post here, is old and stale especially when players maintain the type of numbers in a pitcher friendly park that they put up in a hitters friendly park. By all means continue to discount all the things the Cardinals do in the minors when it comes to development.

    LOL he could have hit .250 in ST and would have made the team, who the hell else were they going to use? They have a bench of Descalso, Wigginton, Robinson and Cruz other than him so that's not a hard tough group to make.

    Scouts are wrong far more than right, and the prospect ratings are favored to much by stats. If those scouts were that great they would have had him rated higher before he started to put up numbers, same with Adams who went in the 23rd round. Just look at the history of Top-100 prospects and see how many bust out or never live up to the hype, hell look at your own team with Rasmus who got over hyped.

    If they sent those guys to Palm Beach and play in that big park and hit .280 with a big dip in HR in a good year they are going to not get ranked as high. That's what happen to their first rounded James Ramsey last year as he went to PB and hit .229/.333/.314/648 and fell off the prospect radar. This is how Brett Wallace got you guys Holliday he got skipped over PB and the Florida State League and put up numbers and got over hyped, once he's made the majors he's a .244/.317/.367/.684 hitter in 730 AB and on his way out of the majors with a 1-for-24 start with 17 K's.

    I would say you would have to be mentally handicapped if you don't buy into park factors, but I then remembered you're a Cards fan and realize all the fluke stats that most Cards players come to the team with has skewed you to what its really like for the other 29 teams who rarely have it happen. Anyone who doesn't think parks make or break players needs to go look up Brandon Wood and see what he did in hitters leagues and then look at him MLB stats.

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    Re: 4/10/13 - Reds at Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by HometownHero View Post
    LOL he could have hit .250 in ST and would have made the team, who the hell else were they going to use? They have a bench of Descalso, Wigginton, Robinson and Cruz other than him so that's not a hard tough group to make.

    Scouts are wrong far more than right, and the prospect ratings are favored to much by stats. If those scouts were that great they would have had him rated higher before he started to put up numbers, same with Adams who went in the 23rd round. Just look at the history of Top-100 prospects and see how many bust out or never live up to the hype, hell look at your own team with Rasmus who got over hyped.

    If they sent those guys to Palm Beach and play in that big park and hit .280 with a big dip in HR in a good year they are going to not get ranked as high. That's what happen to their first rounded James Ramsey last year as he went to PB and hit .229/.333/.314/648 and fell off the prospect radar. This is how Brett Wallace got you guys Holliday he got skipped over PB and the Florida State League and put up numbers and got over hyped, once he's made the majors he's a .244/.317/.367/.684 hitter in 730 AB and on his way out of the majors with a 1-for-24 start with 17 K's.

    I would say you would have to be mentally handicapped if you don't buy into park factors, but I then remembered you're a Cards fan and realize all the fluke stats that most Cards players come to the team with has skewed you to what its really like for the other 29 teams who rarely have it happen. Anyone who doesn't think parks make or break players needs to go look up Brandon Wood and see what he did in hitters leagues and then look at him MLB stats.
    Id trade the talent in the Reds farm system straight up for the talent in the Cards system and I think the Cards FO would have to be mentally handicapped to agree to that trade.
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: 4/10/13 - Reds at Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Id trade the talent in the Reds farm system straight up for the talent in the Cards system and I think the Cards FO would have to be mentally handicapped to agree to that trade.

    They've had more early Top-100 picks, have more money to spend internationally on Latin prospects and haven't made any big trades so they should have more depth in the system right now. In the last 15 months we traded for Mat Latos at a very premium price, Sean Marshall, Jonathan Broxton and Shin-Soo Choo while they gave up one player for Edward Mujica over the same period and that guy has already got DFA by Miami. Then in Cardinals fashion Mujica gives up 5 ER in 34 IP with Cards including playoffs after 19 with Miami in 39 IP.

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    Re: 4/10/13 - Reds at Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by HometownHero View Post
    They've had more early Top-100 picks, have more money to spend internationally on Latin prospects and haven't made any big trades so they should have more depth in the system right now. In the last 15 months we traded for Mat Latos at a very premium price, Sean Marshall, Jonathan Broxton and Shin-Soo Choo while they gave up one player for Edward Mujica over the same period and that guy has already got DFA by Miami. Then in Cardinals fashion Mujica gives up 5 ER in 34 IP with Cards including playoffs after 19 with Miami in 39 IP.
    So you'd make the trade too?
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

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    Re: 4/10/13 - Reds at Cardinals

    Probably a dumb question, but does anyone have any info on *when* the boys left St Louis? We're getting rocked with some wicked storms in the area, and last thing we need is plane issues with the team...

  10. #324
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    Re: 4/10/13 - Reds at Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by foxfire123 View Post
    I keep telling myself that we're only 9 games in, and this means nothing. I just seriously hate them losing to the Cardinals. Ever. This just makes me ill.
    Seems like the Cards yearly get the best of us, but lose games to teams they shouldn't at an alarming rate, hence the Reds coming in first.

    Head to head results don't really matter unless the final standings are close. Plenty of other teams to fry.
    "I can't take this homerism anymore." - 10xWSChamps, August 11, 2010. A Cardinals fan having a problem with all the homerism on Redszone. Classic.

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  11. #325
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    Re: 4/10/13 - Reds at Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Seems like the Cards yearly get the best of us, but lose games to teams they shouldn't at an alarming rate, hence the Reds coming in first.

    Head to head results don't really matter unless the final standings are close. Plenty of other teams to fry.
    Yeah, agreed.

    But, I still would rather see 'em squished like bugs on a windshield....

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    Re: 4/10/13 - Reds at Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    So you'd make the trade too?
    Who wouldn't trade a depleted system after a several trades over the last year and a half for a teams system who hasn't traded anyone big and just had 5 picks in the top 60 picks of the last draft? Just like they would have traded for our system before we moved so many names to get some of the key players on our roster.

    I wouldn't want them to keep since 1B, RF and 2B and back end of their pen is where so many of their top guys project and we have those spots on lockdown, But I would deal them for a SS, a left handed SP or maybe a cost controlled catcher or a 3B for sure. Prospects hardly live up to the hype so I would trade for as many MLB ready or young proven players as the fresh system would get me.

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    Re: 4/10/13 - Reds at Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by HometownHero View Post
    Who wouldn't..........
    Then it seems kind of silly to slag on the Cardinals' current player development system?
    "This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

  14. #328
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    Re: 4/10/13 - Reds at Cardinals

    Just a little perspective - I went back and checked; the 1990 team allowed ten runs and did so seven times, losing every one of those games. They were shut out in two of those 10 run game. Of course, any game where they scored 7 runs or more (31 games), the never lost. Now my guess is that most teams that score at least 7 runs generally win those games. But 31-0 doesn't hurt to make up for those seven losses. It's a long season.

    On those 10 run games, they spread the burden around: Charlton and Armstrong took the loss in two of them, with Browning, Mahler and Robinson the rest.

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    Re: 4/10/13 - Reds at Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by jojo View Post
    Then it seems kind of silly to slag on the Cardinals' current player development system?
    Why anyone can get have prospects if you let FA walk thus having extra picks and then never trade anyone of value for several seasons. They aren't doing anything better than we are we just cashed out guys in for key players on our MLB roster so we don't have the same depth right now.

    These things are cyclical they will be forced to trade some of their guys and the newness will fade off several of their extra picks and some will be blocked causing them to lose value due to age and other will just not pan out at all. This systems ranking is about to take a massive hit over the next year or so as they are going to graduate players and its going to force them to get rid of the good players they already have and cost them some consistency playing so many younger players.

    Taveras is likely to be a RF as he matures so that means one of him or Adams is without a Job with Craig locked up, if they force him to stick in CF they don't have a spot for Jay who's done great for them and they lose Beltran's 33 HR and 105 RBI in 160 games as a Cardinal just to get them to the point to pick and chose the other guys. If Wong pans out they have to move Carpenter to 3rd and let Freese who won them a WS walk as both will be in arbitration and to get the BP arms in they have to let at least two of Motte, Mujica and Boggs leave over the next years. They are also likely to eventually make a move for a SS since its their organizational hole erasing some of these guys names and their depth.

    They have their system propped up right now just like we did, but its about to take a hit and its going to also come at the cost of MLB players who made them winners, with the vets getting older and expensive if they make a bad move on who they keep on these blocked played or get bad a poor return they could find themselves in a bad spot quick.

  16. #330
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    Re: 4/10/13 - Reds at Cardinals

    Quote Originally Posted by Vottomatic View Post
    Seems like the Cards yearly get the best of us, but lose games to teams they shouldn't at an alarming rate, hence the Reds coming in first.

    Head to head results don't really matter unless the final standings are close. Plenty of other teams to fry.
    This is definitely true as evidenced by last season. But it is a problem, nonetheless, as far as I can tell. It speaks to mental toughness and tenacity.

    During the course of a series, the Cardinals can get it done when they need to, when it means something. The Reds have shown they struggle with that. That has been true in the playoffs and in an emotionally charged rivalry when these two get together during the regular season.


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