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Thread: Votto bat 2nd?

  1. #31
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    Re: Votto bat 2nd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Someone with a +900 OPS to start the season is not in a "slump".

    Reds are on pace to score more than 900 runs. Joey getting on base over 50% of the time is a big part of that.

    Dude is on pace to get on base 382 times.
    I used the term slump very loosely. I should have quoted it like you.

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  3. #32
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Votto bat 2nd?

    Kind of funny how this thread died.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  4. #33
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    Re: Votto bat 2nd?

    Quote Originally Posted by KC2135 View Post
    i have torn meniscus and thats not his power issue. i know we paid this man a ton of money, but we just need to cool down. he will work it out.
    Oh damn, glad we've cleared that up, now I know exactly every human person's torn meniscus is exactly like your torn meniscus.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  5. #34
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    Re: Votto bat 2nd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rantly View Post
    Since Votto obviously cannot drive the ball but continues to walk a lot and get his share of base hits, is it a crazy idea to bat him 2nd Phillips 3rd, Bruce 4th, Fazier 5th
    Makes a lot of sense and is imaginative - and that is precisely why Dusty won't do it.

  6. #35
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    Re: Votto bat 2nd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wonderful Monds View Post
    Oh damn, glad we've cleared that up, now I know exactly every human person's torn meniscus is exactly like your torn meniscus.
    well, I didn't mean it that way. of course every situation is different

  7. #36
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    Re: Votto bat 2nd?

    Choo
    Votto
    Phillips
    Frazier
    Bruce
    Heisey
    Mesoraco
    Cozart
    Pitcher

    Unless Leske is pitching in which case bat Cozart 9th...

  8. #37
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    Re: Votto bat 2nd?

    Quote Originally Posted by SwingKing01 View Post
    Choo
    Votto
    Phillips
    Frazier
    Bruce
    Heisey
    Mesoraco
    Cozart
    Pitcher

    Unless Leske is pitching in which case bat Cozart 9th...
    Idk. I think pitchers would pitch around the first three maybe just two if phillips cools off, which he is starting to do. I'm not saying walk them but try to let them get theirselves out then go right after Bruce and Frazier and the rest of the order who are prone to the strike out and impatient at bats.

  9. #38
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    Re: Votto bat 2nd?

    Quote Originally Posted by SwingKing01 View Post
    Choo
    Votto
    Phillips
    Frazier
    Bruce
    Heisey
    Mesoraco
    Cozart
    Pitcher

    Unless Leske is pitching in which case bat Cozart 9th...
    OH OH....you have Phillips & Frazier, 2 RH back-to-back early in the lineuo....Dusty won't go for that

  10. #39
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    Re: Votto bat 2nd?

    How about Mez 2nd. He's getting on base at a good clip, has legit pop, and has more speed than hanigan so the base clogger excuse couldn't be used as it was last year.

  11. #40
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    Re: Votto bat 2nd?

    I hate watching Cozart bat second, but I think it would be counterproductive to move your best hitter to SECOND. We are not even a month into the season and Votto has stated he still is not 100% comfortable at the plate. He is on-base 50% of the time. It does not matter how he gets on as long as he gets on. The hits will come and the sky is not falling.

  12. #41
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    Re: Votto bat 2nd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thisyear View Post
    I hate watching Cozart bat second, but I think it would be counterproductive to move your best hitter to SECOND. We are not even a month into the season and Votto has stated he still is not 100% comfortable at the plate. He is on-base 50% of the time. It does not matter how he gets on as long as he gets on. The hits will come and the sky is not falling.
    The sky isn't falling. I'm sure the reds will hit again when they go up against a mediocre pitcher. They'll probably light him up for ten or 15 and we will all use the bloated statistics to convince ourselves our lineup is fine. It has too many players with a feast or famine approach. It divides up the consistent hitters and makes their production mean less because it can be pitched around or stranded on base by a good pitcher. This team is going to beat good pitching occasionally but not on the level it'd need to be done in the playoffs until Walt brings up or brings in players with a better approach at the plate and our team is put in a better lineup and defensive alignment by dusty

  13. #42
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    Re: Votto bat 2nd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    The sky isn't falling. I'm sure the reds will hit again when they go up against a mediocre pitcher. They'll probably light him up for ten or 15 and we will all use the bloated statistics to convince ourselves our lineup is fine. It has too many players with a feast or famine approach. It divides up the consistent hitters and makes their production mean less because it can be pitched around or stranded on base by a good pitcher. This team is going to beat good pitching occasionally but not on the level it'd need to be done in the playoffs until Walt brings up or brings in players with a better approach at the plate and our team is put in a better lineup and defensive alignment by dusty
    So let me get this right. You get to pick and choose the stats you want to prove a point. If they score ten or 15 runs we just throw those games out. That is not how it works. They obviously have an offensive problem right now, but it is not as bad as you make it out to be. Just for the record they are 3rd in all of baseball in runs scored. Obviously a few games has helped that but you can't pick and choose games to validate a point. It is 24 games into the season. People need to relax and enjoy a team that is GOOD. Until recently we could not say this.

  14. #43
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    Re: Votto bat 2nd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thisyear View Post
    So let me get this right. You get to pick and choose the stats you want to prove a point. If they score ten or 15 runs we just throw those games out. That is not how it works. They obviously have an offensive problem right now, but it is not as bad as you make it out to be. Just for the record they are 3rd in all of baseball in runs scored. Obviously a few games has helped that but you can't pick and choose games to validate a point. It is 24 games into the season. People need to relax and enjoy a team that is GOOD. Until recently we could not say this.
    I never said this team wasn't good. They are a playoff caliber team. The feast or famine nature of the players on the team has been an issue for the past few seasons. I'm not picking and choosing. Look back at a few of the outbursts. They weren't against very good pitching or were contributed to by poor defense. When this team faces above average pitching they go super cold. The reds have too many feast or famine type hitters in their lineup. Plus with ludwick out they dont have a guy who can consistently be a threat behind votto. It leads to huge outbursts and cold streaks. I really don't care if the reds win by ten or 15 against poor pitching. That's not what will be out there when the chips are down in the playoffs. Sure regular season victories matter. I'd be dumb to say they don't. I hate to count my chickens before they hatch but chances are the reds will be in the playoffs. Once they are there, do you want to win? If so the reds need to find some guys that can give a more disciplined at bat. If you'd be happy with going cold in the playoffs against good pitching then we can keep fooling ourselves saying that this team is offensively better than they are by pointing to huge outbursts against average to below average pitching.

  15. #44
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    Re: Votto bat 2nd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Old school 1983 View Post
    I never said this team wasn't good. They are a playoff caliber team. The feast or famine nature of the players on the team has been an issue for the past few seasons. I'm not picking and choosing. Look back at a few of the outbursts. They weren't against very good pitching or were contributed to by poor defense. When this team faces above average pitching they go super cold. The reds have too many feast or famine type hitters in their lineup. Plus with ludwick out they dont have a guy who can consistently be a threat behind votto. It leads to huge outbursts and cold streaks. I really don't care if the reds win by ten or 15 against poor pitching. That's not what will be out there when the chips are down in the playoffs. Sure regular season victories matter. I'd be dumb to say they don't. I hate to count my chickens before they hatch but chances are the reds will be in the playoffs. Once they are there, do you want to win? If so the reds need to find some guys that can give a more disciplined at bat. If you'd be happy with going cold in the playoffs against good pitching then we can keep fooling ourselves saying that this team is offensively better than they are by pointing to huge outbursts against average to below average pitching.
    I just don't buy into the notion of feast or famine. Of course throughout the season 99% of players are going to go through hot and cold streaks. It is the nature of the game. Just like you are going to score more runs against good pitchers rather than bad pitchers. It is common sense. It is not just the Reds who have a hard time hitting top of the rotation pitchers, it is every team. That is why they are top of the rotation pitchers. Speculating they wont win in the playoffs because of struggles in April is premature.

  16. #45
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    Re: Votto bat 2nd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thisyear View Post
    I just don't buy into the notion of feast or famine. Of course throughout the season 99% of players are going to go through hot and cold streaks. It is the nature of the game. Just like you are going to score more runs against good pitchers rather than bad pitchers. It is common sense. It is not just the Reds who have a hard time hitting top of the rotation pitchers, it is every team. That is why they are top of the rotation pitchers. Speculating they wont win in the playoffs because of struggles in April is premature.
    In baseball of course you go through hot and cold streaks. Of course the better pitchers are going to allow less runs. That's why they are the better pitchers. This reds team doesn't only score less runs against good pitching but looks horrible. They have way too many similar bats in their lineup that are undisciplined and swing for the fences. This combined with GABP leads to blowing up poor pitching and getting the holes in your swing and weaknesses exploited by above average pitching. I'm not talking elite pitching who generally will own everyone. The reds struggle against anyone who is above average. Too many strike outs. Too many unproductive at bats. It's different to be shut out by a good pitcher but threaten a couple times a game and give good at bats. There are two guys on this team that give good at bats consistently. Choo and votto. Phillips can at times. The reds hardly ever even do that and if they do they strike out in key situations. If this team had a history of performing offensively for years it'd be premature to be worried in April. Since their coming out party in 2010 strikeouts, lack of plate discipline, and unproductive at bats have been an issue for this club. Sure some of it is because ludwick got hurt this year but its been an issue for some time. In all honesty I don't think the reds are too far off offensively. Adding one may e two guys and eliminating one maybe two feast or famine type guys will go a long way.


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