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Thread: Zack Greinke broke his collarbone

  1. #61
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Zack Greineke broke his collarbone

    Quote Originally Posted by swaisuc View Post
    If we set that precedent, are you OK with suspending pitchers for as long as the batters are out when they hit them?

    It really bothers me that pitchers think it's OK to stand out there throwing fastballs at guys. It's every bit as dangerous as charging the mound and it certainly isn't baseball.
    Well, there are very legitimate, obvious cases where in the course of the game a pitcher accidentally hits a batter. There are zero legitimate cases in which a batter charges the mound. None.

    I'd be open to the situation you described, as long as it can be determined with reasonable certainty that the pitcher was throwing at the batter. But in the case in question, it was a 3-2 pitch against a leadoff hitter who has been hit more frequently than any batter in MLB history. There's roughly a 0% chance Greinke was trying to hurt Quentin. There's roughly a 100% chance the reverse is true.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

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  3. #62
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    Re: Zack Greineke broke his collarbone

    Nevermind...can't post the image
    Last edited by TSJ55; 04-12-2013 at 10:24 AM.
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  4. #63
    Party like it's 1990 Blitz Dorsey's Avatar
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    Re: Zack Greineke broke his collarbone

    There are actually REDS fans who believe the idiotic myth that Cueto ended LaRue's career? Hahaha! I thought only Cardinal fans were foolish enough to believe such nonsense.

    That was the tail end of LaRue's last season. He wasn't coming back the next year any way (unless he wanted to play for the Newark Bears, St. Paul Saints or go to Japan if you get my drift).

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    Re: Zack Greineke broke his collarbone

    [IMG]http://media.philly.com/images/526*395/041113_greinke_600.jpg[/IMG]
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

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  6. #65
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    Re: Zack Greineke broke his collarbone

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    I haven't watched it.
    Yeah, but you just know of these thing inherently I assumed. Wasn't one of your nobel prizes on "assumption and forethought"?


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  7. #66
    Viva la Rolen kaldaniels's Avatar
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    Re: Zack Greineke broke his collarbone

    I don't care what he count was, I don't see how you can rule out that it was intentional.

  8. #67
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    Re: Zack Greineke broke his collarbone

    Greinke getting hurt was his own darn fault. Catcher sets up low and outside and he comes inches from Quentin's face, I'd charge too. It's the first time a guy has ever charged the mound, with plenty of HBP, he needs to be able to protect himself. If a batter can't charge the mound, IMO, a pitcher should be tossed for any HBP, that's not a strike. I'd rather have a big fella try to tackle me, than someone hit me in the face with a fastball. If Greinke wasn't being a punk, then why didn't he just get out of there, why lower his shoulder and try to put it into Quentin.

  9. #68
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Zack Greineke broke his collarbone

    Unwritten rules:

    We had the big unwritten rule discussion earlier, but I'd like to bring it back for this case.

    As far as I can tell (because it's unwritten) there are two different, opposite unwritten rule issues going on here:

    1. If you get hit by a pitch, you rub dirt on it and take your base.
    2. If you get hit by a pitch, you charge the mound.

    Then there is the pitching side
    1. If you intentially pop a guy, you have to stay on the mound while the other guy takes a run at you.
    2. If you don't hit the guy on purpose you have to stay on the mound while the other guy takes a run at you.
    3. If you're the 1B, you have to intercept the guy running to the mound.
    4. If you're in the bullpen, you have to run towards the fight and pretend to protect the pitcher. Even if you don't actually do anything other then show up.

    Am I missing any?
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  10. #69
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    Re: Zack Greineke broke his collarbone

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    Unwritten rules:

    We had the big unwritten rule discussion earlier, but I'd like to bring it back for this case.

    As far as I can tell (because it's unwritten) there are two different, opposite unwritten rule issues going on here:

    1. If you get hit by a pitch that got away or if you deserved it you rub dirt on it and take your base.
    2. If you get hit by a pitch thrown on purpose or at your head, you can charge the mound.

    Then there is the pitching side
    1. If you intentially pop a guy, you have to stay on the mound while the other guy takes a run at you.
    2. If you don't hit the guy on purpose you have to stay on the mound while the other guy takes a run at you.
    3. If you're the 1B, you have to intercept the guy running to the mound.
    4. If you're in the bullpen, you have to run towards the fight and pretend to protect the pitcher. Even if you don't actually do anything other then show up.

    Am I missing any?
    I am not privy to your pitching unwritten rules. Only one I know is the overarching "Protect your teammates".
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  11. #70
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    Re: Zack Greineke broke his collarbone

    I'm guessing as many times as quentin has been hit he crowds or dives over the plate. If he does he can't really blame a guy for hitting him every now and then. I don't think it was intentional there, but no way to know for sure I guess.

  12. #71
    Rally Onion! Chip R's Avatar
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    Re: Zack Greineke broke his collarbone

    I'll bet if some run-of-the-mill pitcher was involved in this instead of Greinke, no one would be calling for Quentin to be suspended as long as Greinke is out.
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  13. #72
    Posting in Dynarama M2's Avatar
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    Re: Zack Greineke broke his collarbone

    1) Most batters don't get hit on that pitch. Quentin leaned into it. If Greinke said anything, it was probably about that.

    2) Quentin charged the mound, but he didn't throw some specific collarbone-breaking move on Greinke. Stuff happens and Quentin doesn't deserve any special penalty on top of whatever the normal punishment would be.
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  14. #73
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    Re: Zack Greineke broke his collarbone

    Quote Originally Posted by RedsManRick View Post
    Well, there are very legitimate, obvious cases where in the course of the game a pitcher accidentally hits a batter. There are zero legitimate cases in which a batter charges the mound. None.

    I'd be open to the situation you described, as long as it can be determined with reasonable certainty that the pitcher was throwing at the batter. But in the case in question, it was a 3-2 pitch against a leadoff hitter who has been hit more frequently than any batter in MLB history. There's roughly a 0% chance Greinke was trying to hurt Quentin. There's roughly a 100% chance the reverse is true.
    Are pitchers are allowed to charge the batters?

  15. #74
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    Re: Zack Greineke broke his collarbone

    Quote Originally Posted by Todd Gack View Post
    Someone needs to put some blame on AJ Ellis.
    That was my first thought too. It looked like Quentin faked him out by not charging right away, but Ellis should have taken that opportunity to get between the two and politely escort him to first base. Heck, at least grab at his arm, do something.
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  16. #75
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    Re: Zack Greineke broke his collarbone

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Red View Post
    That was my first thought too. It looked like Quentin faked him out by not charging right away, but Ellis should have taken that opportunity to get between the two and politely escort him to first base. Heck, at least grab at his arm, do something.
    When Frazier was hit last week, the first thing Molina did was stand between him and the pitcher. He knew exactly what he was doing.


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