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Thread: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

  1. #16
    Flash the leather! _Sir_Charles_'s Avatar
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    Then, don't use him. It's simple. The Reds have lost five games this year and Hoover is 0-3. It's not rocket science.
    Ever? I get it that he should've been used in a low leverage situation. But it still doesn't address the issue. He needs to work his way out of it. And you're not going to get enough low leverage situations to do that IMO. Hopefully I'm wrong. LOL. It's certainly not like it'd be the first time. :O)
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  3. #17
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    I definitely was wrong about Hoover, and I don't think it's too early to say so. It doesn't mean that he will this bad going forward, but I was convinced that he was ready to dominate MLB hitters. I was wrong. He clearly needed more time in AAA, and the Reds would have been better off to have started the season with him there.
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  4. #18
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    Quote Originally Posted by WVRedsFan View Post
    Then, don't use him. It's simple. The Reds have lost five games this year and Hoover is 0-3. It's not rocket science.
    I don't think it's quite that simple. I'm on the bus of JJ being overused initially and needing more opportunity to do what he's shown before. But also agree that tonight probably wasn't the best situation to put him in. Marshall finally getting DL'ed should make for better distribution of the load across more relievers with no close, tense, critical situation for JJ for awhile. Just mho.

    I'll use a Nats analogy...since being in DC that's what I do ...Henry Rodriguez. The guy has just about worn out his welcome but when he's on, he overpowers and is lights out. So he gets put in when the lead is big enough to minimize impact and hopefully boost his confidence.
    Reds & Nats, 2013 LCS. Take2 (9/13) Reds but no Nats

  5. #19
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    Having a tough stretch but I think Hoover will be fine. It is interesting from a managers perspective why we don't see Brox or Lecure in that situation though? I get saving Brox for the eighth but I would do whatever it took to keep the momentum swung in my favor after the BP home run.

  6. #20
    Member smixsell's Avatar
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    I've only seen 2 of his outings this year, but his stuff has been terrible both appearances. Avg at best FB, below avg, curve. Formula for getting shelled by ML hitters. Needs to go down to get it straightened out. He'll be useful again IMO, but is good for nothing but starting a big inning now.

    I've never expected him to be dominant, doubt he ever will be, but he needs to work out the kinks in the minors in order to be useful again. Will wind up as a useful 6th and 7th inning guy IMO. I hope he gets it back soon, but he needs to do it in the minors.
    Last edited by smixsell; 04-12-2013 at 10:55 PM.

  7. #21
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    If anything he needs some time in AAA to regain his confidence. He's missing his spots, and his breaking ball is not dropping off late. Good velocity doesn't mean much if you can't hit the corners.

    I'd rather go with Ondrusek at this point.

  8. #22
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    Quote Originally Posted by smixsell View Post
    I've only seen 2 of his outings this year, but his stuff has been terrible both appearances. Avg at best FB, below avg, curve. Formula for getting shelled by ML hitters. Needs to go down to get it straightened out. He'll be useful again IMO, but is good for nothing but starting a big inning now.

    I've never expected him to be dominant, doubt he ever will be, but he needs to work out the kinks in the minors in order to be useful again.
    I've seen him twice in person and more via mlbtv. Agree he hasn't looked good. But also agree it was near criminal the load he was asked to carry the first half dozen or so games. Not sure a demotion to L'ville is the right next move (versus a couple of lower leverage situations first) but may agree with that too within a week or so. Obviously tons of time and lots of games left. No doubt we finish well per the norm. Still, always sucks to see the team lose ones they should have won...like tonight. Getting to the right decision on Hoover, whatever that is, should happen soon but not immediately imho.
    Reds & Nats, 2013 LCS. Take2 (9/13) Reds but no Nats

  9. #23
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    Relievers have to work under non-ideal situations. Teams have injuries, extra innings, early knockouts of starters, too many close games, too few close games, lots of circumstances. A good reliever has to deal with it.

    Lots of excuses for Hoover in this thread. I say, nonsense. He has three of the team's five losses, he simply has not pitched well.

    I'm not giving up on Hoover, I strongly wanted him on the team this year. But if you asked him, I'm sure he wouldn't blame the manager, the work load, etc. Tonight he had plenty of rest, but folks are saying the game was too close for him.

    I have a rule of thumb: if you find yourself making constant excuses for a ballplayer, maybe it's time to focus on the player, and not the excuses.

  10. #24
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post
    Relievers have to work under non-ideal situations. Teams have injuries, extra innings, early knockouts of starters, too many close games, too few close games, lots of circumstances. A good reliever has to deal with it.

    Lots of excuses for Hoover in this thread. I say, nonsense. He has three of the team's five losses, he simply has not pitched well.

    I'm not giving up on Hoover, I strongly wanted him on the team this year. But if you asked him, I'm sure he wouldn't blame the manager, the work load, etc. Tonight he had plenty of rest, but folks are saying the game was too close for him.

    I have a rule of thumb: if you find yourself making constant excuses for a ballplayer, maybe it's time to focus on the player, and not the excuses.
    Sure. No excuses and I'm sure you're right that he wouldn't make any if asked. It's a judgment call about what "focus on the player" means in terms of shortness of leash. Hoover's young and needs to develop his mechanics and his confidence. I just don't think the latter is helped developmentally by immediate demotion but may be the right call in a week or two. Guessing that's how the team will see it too.
    Reds & Nats, 2013 LCS. Take2 (9/13) Reds but no Nats

  11. #25
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    Quote Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_ View Post
    Ever? I get it that he should've been used in a low leverage situation. But it still doesn't address the issue. He needs to work his way out of it. And you're not going to get enough low leverage situations to do that IMO. Hopefully I'm wrong. LOL. It's certainly not like it'd be the first time. :O)
    We all expect Dusty to have the magic pitching 8 ball. Yes,,,clearly Hoover has been bad.....but he had pitched so good in ST...and had 2 days of rest, at least...so why not give him another chance.

    Anyone in the bullpen who struggles.....is the wrong choice for Dusty to bring in.

  12. #26
    Where's my chair? REDREAD's Avatar
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    I definitely think LeCure needs to be above Hoover in the pecking order.

    That doesn't mean that Hoover stinks, but I would just like LeCure to get more of the high leverage spots.
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  13. #27
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    I was wrong because I said he was ready to close. That was a too-early conclusion. But as far as him being a good reliever on this team, that potential is still there. Just a couple of rough outings so far.
    "I never argue with people who say baseball is boring, because baseball is boring. And then, suddenly, it isn't. And that's what makes it great." - Joe Posnanski

  14. #28
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    he just needs to get his confidence back. A few quick 1,2,3 innings would be nice.

  15. #29
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    Cowboy made it sound simple tonight on the radio.... all the same stuff is there as was there in spring training, but the results are wildly different because Hoover got lit up once and has been over-throwing and missing up since. The physical adjustment should be an easy one, but the mental adjustment is the wild card.

    Now: does that explanation sound simple to me because the problem really is that simple, or because Cowboy is not exactly one of our most scintilating intellects and is the simplest element of this equation? That's the $64,000 Question....


    Rick

  16. #30
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    He looked good in a blowout at STL.....had more than a few games to rest....so no excuses.....he got called on in a close game and pitched badly. It sounds like it is a mental and confidence issue....and like what was previous stated.....over throwing.

    I am sure Dusty will hold off on using him....then he will just go to LeClure or maybe even Simon. If Ondrusek shows he can rebound and pitch better...than him. I am thinking he is going to see who can handle what as the month goes on.


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