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Thread: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

  1. #31
    Member Tom Servo's Avatar
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    I am confident in Hoover's ability, I do worry though if these losses are hurting his confidence and getting in his head. A trip to AAA may help.
    "Since I've been with the Reds in 1989, we've never had a farm system this loaded," Bowden said. "If we were the New York Yankees and had unlimited dollars, we could have traded for Colon, (Jeff) Weaver, Rolen, (Cliff) Floyd, (Kenny) Rogers and Finley and gotten them all -- and still held onto our top five prospects. That's an amazing statement."

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  3. #32
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    Isn't it kind of early to have this thread?

    It's been 5 2/3 innings. You wouldn't have this thread if it was Mat Latos or somebody having 5 bad innings. You know nothing from 5 innings of work.

    And a 33.3% HR/FB ratio is absurdly unsustainable.
    Last edited by gilpdawg; 04-13-2013 at 02:46 AM.

  4. #33
    Worst Behavior. reds44's Avatar
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    Quote Originally Posted by gilpdawg View Post
    Isn't it kind of early to have this thread?

    It's been 5 2/3 innings. You wouldn't have this thread if it was Mat Latos or somebody having 5 bad innings. You know nothing from 5 innings of work.

    And a 33.3% HR/FB ratio is absurdly unsustainable.
    We had a Jay Bruce thread 6 ABs into the season.
    Quote Originally Posted by PuffyPig View Post
    Let's face it, you mis-hit the bun with the mustard squirter, no one will really care.

  5. #34
    Member Wonderful Monds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gilpdawg View Post
    Isn't it kind of early to have this thread?

    It's been 5 2/3 innings. You wouldn't have this thread if it was Mat Latos or somebody having 5 bad innings. You know nothing from 5 innings of work.

    And a 33.3% HR/FB ratio is absurdly unsustainable.
    I don't know, it might be unsustainable, but he's probably pitching that poorly. I don't think this is a luck thing. It's probably more unsustainable because pitchers who perform that badly don't hang on to roster spots for very long.
    They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Schuler View Post
    He has also taught me that even when the Reds win it is important to focus on the fact that they could have lost.

  6. #35
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    Yeah, he's pitched poorly, but he's pitched poorly for 5 innings. That tells us nothing. Just like if he throws 5 shutout innings over the next two weeks. That sample would also tell us nothing. I'd give him until at least May 1. That wouldn't be a very big sample either but I don't really trust any samples of relievers. That's why relievers are so volatile. What would be a 3 or 4 start slump for a starting pitcher is almost half the season for a reliever.

  7. #36
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    He's been a bit wild and quite a bit unlucky, but its sick to see him leading the majors in losses out of the pen.

  8. #37
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    Quote Originally Posted by gilpdawg View Post
    Isn't it kind of early to have this thread?

    It's been 5 2/3 innings. You wouldn't have this thread if it was Mat Latos or somebody having 5 bad innings. You know nothing from 5 innings of work.

    And a 33.3% HR/FB ratio is absurdly unsustainable.
    Relievers only throw around 60-80 innings a season, so this would be more like evaluating Latos after around three starts, or Bruce after 60 AB's.

    Yes, it's early, but you definitely can learn something about a reliever after 6 innings of work. What we learned from Hoover's six innings is that is not as polished as we thought he was.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  9. #38
    Member klw's Avatar
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    Reds should consider a trip to AAA for Hoover with Prior up and a trip to the 60 day for Ludwig.

  10. #39
    malingered here too long malcontent's Avatar
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    Quote Originally Posted by FlightRick View Post
    ....or because Cowboy is not exactly one of our most scintilating intellects....
    You answered your own question. I just don't see the stuff of a dominant MLB reliever, much less closer material. I don't care how sneaky his 91/92 heater is. Remember, we did get the guy for Francisco. Atlanta didn't get hosed in the deal.

    As for last night's game, you just knew he had to be extra careful with McCutcheon in that situation. He wasn't. Or with the next two hitters. Of course it should have been LeCure and that was Baker's fault. But if it means a clear-headed reassessment of Hoover's talent, maybe it's better to have it done now.

  11. #40
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    Quote Originally Posted by gilpdawg View Post
    Isn't it kind of early to have this thread?

    It's been 5 2/3 innings. You wouldn't have this thread if it was Mat Latos or somebody having 5 bad innings. You know nothing from 5 innings of work.

    And a 33.3% HR/FB ratio is absurdly unsustainable.
    It's not kind of early. This thread is too late, perhaps we should have had one during spring training -- "Hoover's great spring - watch out."

    I agree that five innings may not tell us much about Hoover long term, but they do tell us that one pitcher has contributed mightily to three losses, the Reds might well have a better record if someone else had pitched.

    If the goal is to win this year, Hoover right now needs to pitch mop up or in AAA. This is worth having a thread about.

    The suggestion is that this is some statistical fluke caused by a HR/FB rate. The reason that rate is high is because this pitcher is allowing rocket shots. Maybe it's unlikely he will continue forever to do that - but right now, the Reds might try somebody else in a close game.
    Last edited by Kc61; 04-13-2013 at 11:39 AM.

  12. #41
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    how can it be early when you can argue hoover has lost us 3 games already?

  13. #42
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    Quote Originally Posted by R_Webb18 View Post
    how can it be early when you can argue hoover has lost us 3 games already?
    Because Hoover isn't the only person that played in those games. Mike Leake gave up a lot more runs yesterday than Hoover did. It was just the order in which the runs were given up that attributes the "loss" to Hoover.

    Hoover hasn't pitched well this year. But he didn't lose us 3 games.

  14. #43
    Making sense of it all Matt700wlw's Avatar
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    I think his head is a mess right now, which can be fixed, but needs to be done in the minors.

    Dusty's overuse hasn't helped.

  15. #44
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    I think the Reds and Dusty were a little overoptimistic about the load and the situations Hoover got chucked into. He needed some blending in, not the "toss him into every tough situation you can" kind of treament.

    Lecure is a more seasoned vet that would be better suited to that and I'm not sure why Dusty didn't use him just a smidge more.

    The Reds waffling about Marshall and effectively having a relief corp that was one man down didn't help.

    Pay attention to the open sky

  16. #45
    Member OnBaseMachine's Avatar
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    I'm a huge Hoover fan. I think he'll be fine, but right now I wouldn't continue using him in pressure situations until he gets himself straightened out. LeCure and Broxton would have been much better options last night. I didn't understand that decision by Dusty.
    I miss Adam Dunn.


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