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Thread: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

  1. #46
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Because Hoover isn't the only person that played in those games. Mike Leake gave up a lot more runs yesterday than Hoover did. It was just the order in which the runs were given up that attributes the "loss" to Hoover.

    Hoover hasn't pitched well this year. But he didn't lose us 3 games.
    Lots of Reds have started slowly. But Hoover was entrusted with three tie games and promptly allowed the winning run(s) in each.

    His job is different from Leake, Cozart, Hanigan, Bailey, other guys with some bad numbers early. He's given up the winning run(s) three times in ten games. I think that warrants a thread and special discussion.

    This is a pitcher, by the way, who was touted as an appropriate closer candidate for the Reds on this board. People who I call the "anti-closer" group who feel, basically, that anyone with a good arm can close. I think it's very instructive to see what happens when a reliever isn't ready for a job with the game on the line.

    He's also a pitcher who was deemed a "steal" or "heist" by some because the Reds got him for Juan Francisco. Maybe it's a bit soon to reach that conclusion.

    Good luck to Hoover, but I think it's ok if some folks want to discuss and perhaps rant about his first outings this year.
    Last edited by Kc61; 04-13-2013 at 01:15 PM.

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  3. #47
    Stat Wanker Hodiernus RedsManRick's Avatar
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    Quote Originally Posted by gilpdawg View Post
    Isn't it kind of early to have this thread?

    It's been 5 2/3 innings. You wouldn't have this thread if it was Mat Latos or somebody having 5 bad innings. You know nothing from 5 innings of work.

    And a 33.3% HR/FB ratio is absurdly unsustainable.
    Exactly.
    Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

  4. #48
    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    5 2/3 innings isn't enough for me to decide what I want to eat in the 7th inning.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  5. #49
    .377 in 1905 CySeymour's Avatar
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    Rough patches happen. Remember Chapman's last year? If Hoovers stuff is off right now then maybe he should flip duties with LeCure for now.
    ...the 2-2 to Woodsen and here it comes...and it is swung on and missed! And Tom Browning has pitched a perfect game! Twenty-seven outs in a row, and he is being mobbed by his teammates, just to the thirdbase side of the mound.

  6. #50
    The Boss dougdirt's Avatar
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kc61 View Post

    This is a pitcher, by the way, who was touted as an appropriate closer candidate for the Reds on this board. People who I call the "anti-closer" group who feel, basically, that anyone with a good arm can close. I think it's very instructive to see what happens when a reliever isn't ready for a job with the game on the line.
    Hoover seemed ready for those situations in 2012. He got the job done. Now in 2013, he isn't mentally ready for it?

  7. #51
    Member tomnuetten's Avatar
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    I think some user overstated him after last year and judge him now to early (5-6 innings => small sample size)

  8. #52
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Hoover seemed ready for those situations in 2012. He got the job done. Now in 2013, he isn't mentally ready for it?
    He might have seemed ready, but he wasn't really used in high leverage situations, so we really were just guessing. He was used in just two high leverage situations last year, and he was effective in one, and blew the save in another.

    There just isn't enough info to determine if he can or he can't handle high leverage situations.
    "Man, the pitch looks fast, even in slow motion." Thom Brennaman on Chapman's fastball.

  9. #53
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    Quote Originally Posted by dougdirt View Post
    Hoover seemed ready for those situations in 2012. He got the job done. Now in 2013, he isn't mentally ready for it?
    I don't know what his problem is but I am beginning to get heartburn when his name is called.

  10. #54
    Member smixsell's Avatar
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    The thread is warranted because of how BAD his stuff and his pitches have been in recent outings. 92 mph fastball with no movement and a lollipop curve. That will get you hammered in 9 of 10 appearances at the big league level. I don't want one one member of our limited bullpen to be a gasoline can ready to turn a spark into a fire in 9 of 10 outings. Whatever has caused his pitches to become so poor needs to change ASAP. Usually the minors are the right place to send someone who needs to get it back together. Too costly to let the "retooling" happen at the ML level.

  11. #55
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    Simpler approach than AAA for now, "promote" Lecure to the higher leverage 7th inning/close situations and move Hoover to the lower leverage stuff and see if that helps him relax and find his command again.

  12. #56
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    Feel like we're piling on a fair amount here. Most seem to agree Hoover was a) worked too much initially, b) has significant talent and c) needs to be used in lower leverage situations to possibly boost confidence and get him back on track so d) a real and fair assessment can be made after at least a few more weeks. Yep to all that.
    Reds & Nats, 2013 LCS. Take2 (9/13) Reds but no Nats

  13. #57
    The rest is drama. marcshoe's Avatar
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    Hey, Monday we'll be halfway through April!

  14. #58
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    When Broxton and Chapman are only pitching in the 8th and 9th inning of close games where the Reds are ahead, it limits what you can do with the rest of your bullpen. Thus, Hoover is put in situations where one run buries the team even further. That can't be good for his confidence when he's put in lose/lose situations over and over again.

  15. #59
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    I know Dusty will only let Chapman pitch for the save or 9th at home in tie game but at least let Broxton pitch when you need him.

  16. #60
    Oy Vey! Red in Chicago's Avatar
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    Re: Were we wrong about JJ Hoover?

    Quote Originally Posted by membengal View Post
    Simpler approach than AAA for now, "promote" Lecure to the higher leverage 7th inning/close situations and move Hoover to the lower leverage stuff and see if that helps him relax and find his command again.
    This would be my suggestion as well. I get (not necessarily agree with) Brox always being the 8th inning guy and Chappy being the 9th inning guy, but getting LeCure some innings now seems reasonable. LeCure hasn't pitched since the 8th. Brox and Chap last pitched on the 7th. Hopefully, the Reds will have a lead today so those guys see the mound.


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