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Thread: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

  1. #61
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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    nate Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    I'm sorry but this is simply wrong. Period.

    And he's a good example of why. Teams don't hit appreciably better with RISP. For example, the entirety of the NL in 2012:
    I was strictly speaking for the the time period that Gack (I think) pointed out and for strikouts only. Not avg/obp/slg that you posted. I don't expect the Reds to finish the season dead last there, but I don't think they should ever be there to begin with.

    Thanks for the table though. It was enlightening to see where all the teams stood. Does that include playoffs?
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

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  3. #62
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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    Unassisted Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Brisco
    Unless they are committing a crime or similar civil or moral wrong, I do not think any of us get to use the word "inexcuseable."

    Except this guy...
    I can honestly say that I can't tell you which Reds announcer that guy is. I'm sure I would recognize his voice and still wouldn't be able to match it with a name. I rarely watch the Reds feed, unless I'm at work in which case I don't have to hear/listen to it.

    With the exception of his choice to wear that turlteneck, I think he's on to something there though.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  4. #63
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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    GAC Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    While what you say is true, concerning situational hitting, they still won the division last year... and it wasn't situational hitting, after being up 2-0 on the Giants, that caused their downfall in the play-offs last year.

    It was pitching, timely and costly errors at very critical times (junctures), and yes, maybe, even a couple bad managerial decisions in key situations (debatable).
    I could add baserunning to your list and say it all came into play without question. It would be stupid to state otherwise. It's just that adjusting your approach at the plate to maximize your AB to fit a situation is a pet peeve of mine (could you tell?) and I felt they did poor job of it while the Giants did it well.

    As for winning the division, that is true. But with the squad that was fielded last year I just don't think it was enough. And to take it a step further, to lose the way they did, it downgrades it to "failure" in my book. I'm tough, what can I say?

    But one of my "beefs" last year was a solid #4 hitter behind Votto. We were experimenting with numerous players last year trying to find that "guy". And it's the same this year too.

    Right now, BP is doing a solid job there; but in his career, overall, bating #4, it's been kinda streaky, because that's the type of hitter he is. But we'll see.
    Agree with all this
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

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  5. #64
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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    Brisco Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...


    Disgust: extreme revulsion

    C'mon dude... we are not talking about child molesters and rapists here... you are talking about athletes that the WS champions beat in a 5 game series... How the heck does that justify "disgust"?

    Again, please kill the hyperbole.
    Professor, please refer to my first response about frame of reference due to not watching the news as well as the definition of hyperbole.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  6. #65
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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    I was strictly speaking for the the time period that Gack (I think) pointed out and for strikouts only. Not avg/obp/slg that you posted. I don't expect the Reds to finish the season dead last there, but I don't think they should ever be there to begin with.
    I'm sorry but I still say the idea that the team has no "heart," etc. because you don't like the way they make outs even while they're still one of the best teams scoring in the league is wrong. It has nothing to do with "trying," it has to do with the nature of playing major league baseball. Sometimes the hits align and sometimes they don't.

    The reason for the chart was to show, in the end, it doesn't matter because a team's overall rate stats are going to look an awful lot like their splits with very few, marginal exceptions.

    Thanks for the table though. It was enlightening to see where all the teams stood. Does that include playoffs?
    No.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  7. #66
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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    nate, isn't is like 230am out on the west coast?

    Team is currently 2nd in the NL in Runs Scored.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  8. #67
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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    Quote Originally Posted by nate View Post
    I'm sorry but I still say the idea that the team has no "heart," etc. because you don't like the way they make outs even while they're still one of the best teams scoring in the league is wrong. It has nothing to do with "trying," it has to do with the nature of playing major league baseball. Sometimes the hits align and sometimes they don't.
    We're getting into semantics here with terminology, but I want to be on record (again) that I don't believe the Reds to have "no heart". Specific ABs maybe, but not as a team, as whole. I've seen them fight and I know better, so my comment could probably have been worded better.

    When a player doesn't make a concious decision to do whatever he has to do to put the ball in play in scoring situations and would rather strike out than check his ego, it drives me nuts.

    Why does JV get so much praise around here for doing it, yet it's cool for others to approach every pitch like it's 3-1?
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  9. #68
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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    We're getting into semantics here with terminology, but I want to be on record (again) that I don't believe the Reds to have "no heart". Specific ABs maybe, but not as a team, as whole. I've seen them fight and I know better, so my comment could probably have been worded better.

    When a player doesn't make a concious decision to do whatever he has to do to put the ball in play in scoring situations and would rather strike out than check his ego, it drives me nuts.

    Why does JV get so much praise around here for doing it, yet it's cool for others to approach every pitch like it's 3-1?
    I think it's more that Votto is an otherworldly hitter rather than the other players not trying.

  10. #69
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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    Quote Originally Posted by Crumbley View Post
    I think it's more that Votto is an otherworldly hitter rather than the other players not trying.
    You're of the opinion that other players are changing their approach w/ 2 strikes as well then?
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

    All the dishes rattle in the cupboards when the elephants arrive

  11. #70
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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    You're of the opinion that other players are changing their approach w/ 2 strikes as well then?
    Other than Votto, the only player I see that regularly seems to alter his approach with 2 strikes is Hanigan. Although, this past week or so, Bruce has been impressing me in those instances.

    Sorry, I forgot Brandon. In the past I haven't seen any change in those situations...this year I have. He's shortened his swing there sometimes. Not always, but sometimes.
    2014 predictions:
    99-63 WS champs (Cards take 2nd WC, Mil 3rd, Pit 4th, Chi 5th)
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  12. #71
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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    We're getting into semantics here with terminology, but I want to be on record (again) that I don't believe the Reds to have "no heart". Specific ABs maybe, but not as a team, as whole. I've seen them fight and I know better, so my comment could probably have been worded better.

    When a player doesn't make a concious decision to do whatever he has to do to put the ball in play in scoring situations and would rather strike out than check his ego, it drives me nuts.
    Except they probably DO make a conscious decision to put the ball in play. I seriously doubt ANY PLAYER would "rather strike out."

    It's a game of failure for the batter so...more often than not, they fail. Even the good ones.

    Why does JV get so much praise around here for doing it, yet it's cool for others to approach every pitch like it's 3-1?
    I don't know, you're going to have to ask all the people who say that. I have a hard enough time speaking for myself let along dozens of others.
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"

  13. #72
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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    nate, isn't is like 230am out on the west coast?

    Team is currently 2nd in the NL in Runs Scored.
    Gordy approves!
    "Bring on Rod Stupid!"


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