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Thread: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

  1. #46
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    So do these numbers make up for and/or supersede the numbers that T. Gack posted in the other thread?
    IMO, yes. TG's stats are not irrelevant, but what nate and Raisor are showing are not small windows, isolated situations (Ks w/RISP), but TOTALS that would include all, including TG's numbers.

    So regardless of the fact the Reds aren't batting for average to well with RISP, are K'ing, they still are....

    - 5th in the league in runs scored with RISP, 6 runs behind the Cardinals (nate)

    - are averaging over 5 runs a game (Raisor)

    I have a love/hate relationship with the month of April. I love it obviously because it's the start of baseball. I hate it, in a sense, because of the erratic weather and other variables... players trying to get comfortable, find their groove... and that it doesn't, IMO, present the true nature (identity) of a team as a whole. I just think it's too small of a "window" to be too critical or over analytical RIGHT NOW.
    Last edited by GAC; 04-16-2013 at 05:59 AM.
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  4. #47
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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    Quote Originally Posted by GAC View Post
    IMO, yes. TG's stats are not irrelevant, but what nate and Raisor are showing are not small windows, isolated situations (Ks w/RISP), but TOTALS that would include all, including TG's numbers.

    So regardless of the fact the Reds aren't batting for average to well with RISP, are K'ing, they still are....

    - 5th in the league in runs scored with RISP, 6 runs behind the Cardinals (nate)

    - are averaging over 5 runs a game (Raisor)

    I have a love/hate relationship with the month of April. I love it obviously because it's the start of baseball. I hate it, in a sense, because of the erratic weather and other variables... players trying to get comfortable, find their groove... and that it doesn't, IMO, present the true nature (identity) of a team as a whole. I just think it's too small of a "window" to be too critical or over analytical RIGHT NOW.
    I'm no doomsday prophet and I'm very aware that the season is young so the trend could very well change but...

    The Reds got embarassed at home and started their golf season early last year largely due to their failure to hit in key situations. Granted, I still have that disgusting taste in my mouth and it's probably making me more sensitive to the stat than I might be otherwise. That said, I still cannot make excuses for them.

    Leading MLB in Ks with an opportunity to score? Not middle of the road or even bottom of the middle. LEADING THE LEAGUE. It shows a lack of heart, lack of skill, lack of baseball IQ, or some combination thereof. Regardless of PAs or anything else, it's unacceptable. Ever.
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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    Quote Originally Posted by jhu1321 View Post
    Yes but we didn't lose Cueto, Ludwick and Marshall last year by this time.
    Ludwick was hitting about like Heisey though. I definitely didn't see his breakout coming, I was screaming cut him.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    Leading MLB in Ks with an opportunity to score? Not middle of the road or even bottom of the middle. LEADING THE LEAGUE. It shows a lack of heart, lack of skill, lack of baseball IQ, or some combination thereof. Regardless of PAs or anything else, it's unacceptable. Ever.
    It's up to you if you want to be disgusted by it.

    Me, I'm fine with how the offense has been playing.

    In the NL
    2nd in RS
    6th in OPS
    4th in OBP
    6th in SLG

    Sure, they lead the league in K's, but considering they are 4th in OBP that just means they are making less outs overall.

    I'll take less outs overall even if it means a higher percentage of the outs they do make are strikeouts.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    It's up to you if you want to be disgusted by it.
    Don't put words in my mouth. I'm disgusted by the early exit in 2012, not this year. If situational hitting gets them embarassed again in 2013 it'll be interesting to see who that gets pinned on this time around.
    Everything that can be counted does not necessarily count; everything that counts cannot necessarily be counted.

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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    It all boils down to wins and losses. Every team - even the very worst team in the league - is going to win at least 40 games. The Apocalypse would occur before the Reds lost more than 120 games in a season. By the same token, every team - even the best teams in baseball - are going to lose at least 40 games. No team in recent history has won 120 regular season games.

    That leaves 82 games that are going to determine the outcome of the season. If the Reds can win 50 of those 82 games, that's 90 wins and that MIGHT be enough to pull out the division as long as the other division teams beat up on each other a little.

    The Pirates series, quite honestly, hurts the Reds' pride more that it does our chances. I can't help but think that the Reds will return the favor-AND MORE-later in the year. What would be really sweet is if they could pull that same feat on the Cards and the Brewers at some point.

    If the Reds can hang within 5-6 games even with the injuries, they will be in pretty good shape if Cueto doesn't come back until the middle of June.
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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    Quote Originally Posted by Griffey012 View Post
    Ludwick was hitting about like Heisey though. I definitely didn't see his breakout coming, I was screaming cut him.
    Uh...didn't he get hurt in the first game of the year? Wouldn't it be equally true that he was hitting like Mike Trout, or Babe Ruth, or Eddie Gaedel, or me?

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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    Quote Originally Posted by redssince75 View Post
    Uh...didn't he get hurt in the first game of the year? Wouldn't it be equally true that he was hitting like Mike Trout, or Babe Ruth, or Eddie Gaedel, or me?
    I was talking about early last season. I was replying to a quote that said we also didn't have Cueto, Ludwick, and Marshall on the DL at this time last year. To which I was simply saying I was screaming cut Ludwick at this time last year, so I may leave him out of the equation when comparing the two starts because we didn't have a LF answer yet at this time last season, and we don't at the moment due to his injury.
    "Today was the byproduct of us thinking we can come back from anything." - Joey Votto after blowing a 10-1 lead and holding on for the 12-11 win on 8/25/2010.

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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    I'm no doomsday prophet and I'm very aware that the season is young so the trend could very well change but...

    The Reds got embarassed at home and started their golf season early last year largely due to their failure to hit in key situations. Granted, I still have that disgusting taste in my mouth and it's probably making me more sensitive to the stat than I might be otherwise. That said, I still cannot make excuses for them.

    Leading MLB in Ks with an opportunity to score? Not middle of the road or even bottom of the middle. LEADING THE LEAGUE. It shows a lack of heart, lack of skill, lack of baseball IQ, or some combination thereof. Regardless of PAs or anything else, it's unacceptable. Ever.
    First it was inexcuseable and now it is unacceptable.

    Unless they are committing a crime or similar civil or moral wrong, I do not think any of us get to use the word "inexcuseable."

    If you find their play is "unacceptable" then I guess you choose not to "accept" it. Since you have no power to change the Reds, are you changing what team you root for after 12 games since you no longer accept them?

    Also any team that leads the league in Ks with RISP has "...a lack of heart, lack of skill, lack of baseball IQ, or some combination thereof."

    I believe that every single team in baseball will have a twelve game stretch (if you cherry pick it) this year where they will lead the league in some negative offensive stat.

    Heck, I would not be surprised if both the 75 and 76 Reds led the league in KRISP during some 12 game stretch.

    Did they have..."a lack of heart, lack of skill, lack of baseball IQ, or some combination thereof."?

    Please stop the hyperbole.

  12. #55
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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    Leading MLB in Ks with an opportunity to score? Not middle of the road or even bottom of the middle. LEADING THE LEAGUE. It shows a lack of heart, lack of skill, lack of baseball IQ, or some combination thereof. Regardless of PAs or anything else, it's unacceptable. Ever.
    I'm sorry but this is simply wrong. Period.

    And he's a good example of why. Teams don't hit appreciably better with RISP. For example, the entirety of the NL in 2012:

    Code:
    		RISP			Normal			Diff		
    Rk		BA	OBP	SLG	BA	OBP	SLG	BA	OBP	SLG
    1	COL	0.276	0.343	0.447	0.274	0.330	0.436	-0.002	-0.013	-0.011
    2	MIL	0.257	0.347	0.438	0.259	0.325	0.437	0.002	-0.022	-0.001
    3	STL	0.264	0.353	0.422	0.271	0.338	0.421	0.007	-0.015	-0.001
    4	ARI	0.264	0.353	0.422	0.259	0.328	0.418	-0.005	-0.025	-0.004
    5	PHI	0.263	0.345	0.418	0.255	0.317	0.400	-0.008	-0.028	-0.018
    6	WSN	0.256	0.345	0.391	0.261	0.322	0.428	0.005	-0.023	0.037
    7	CIN	0.245	0.336	0.386	0.251	0.315	0.411	0.006	-0.021	0.025
    8	SFG	0.259	0.336	0.386	0.269	0.327	0.397	0.010	-0.009	0.011
    9	NYM	0.246	0.337	0.381	0.249	0.316	0.386	0.003	-0.021	0.005
    10	PIT	0.240	0.330	0.383	0.243	0.304	0.395	0.003	-0.026	0.012
    11	LAD	0.252	0.339	0.376	0.252	0.317	0.374	0.000	-0.022	-0.002
    12	ATL	0.231	0.334	0.362	0.247	0.320	0.389	0.016	-0.014	0.027
    13	HOU	0.234	0.319	0.363	0.236	0.302	0.371	0.002	-0.017	0.008
    14	CHC	0.231	0.323	0.358	0.240	0.302	0.378	0.009	-0.021	0.020
    15	MIA	0.234	0.325	0.354	0.244	0.308	0.382	0.010	-0.017	0.028
    16	SDP	0.233	0.329	0.348	0.247	0.319	0.380	0.014	-0.010	0.032
    										
    All	Average	0.249	0.337	0.390	0.254	0.318	0.400	0.005	-0.019	0.011
    Last edited by nate; 04-16-2013 at 09:14 PM.
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  13. #56
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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    Quote Originally Posted by Brisco View Post
    Unless they are committing a crime or similar civil or moral wrong, I do not think any of us get to use the word "inexcuseable."
    Except this guy...
    Last edited by Unassisted; 04-16-2013 at 09:11 PM.
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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    Don't put words in my mouth. I'm disgusted by the early exit in 2012, not this year. If situational hitting gets them embarassed again in 2013 it'll be interesting to see who that gets pinned on this time around.
    Disgust: extreme revulsion

    C'mon dude... we are not talking about child molesters and rapists here... you are talking about athletes that the WS champions beat in a 5 game series... How the heck does that justify "disgust"?

    Again, please kill the hyperbole.

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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    Quote Originally Posted by redssince75 View Post
    Uh...didn't he get hurt in the first game of the year? Wouldn't it be equally true that he was hitting like Mike Trout, or Babe Ruth, or Eddie Gaedel, or me?
    I think he is referring to his emotions last year early season about ludwick.

  16. #59
    THAT'S A FACT JACK!! GAC's Avatar
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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    Quote Originally Posted by TSJ55 View Post
    If situational hitting gets them embarassed again in 2013 it'll be interesting to see who that gets pinned on this time around.
    While what you say is true, concerning situational hitting, they still won the division last year... and it wasn't situational hitting, after being up 2-0 on the Giants, that caused their downfall in the play-offs last year.

    It was pitching, timely and costly errors at very critical times (junctures), and yes, maybe, even a couple bad managerial decisions in key situations (debatable).

    But one of my "beefs" last year was a solid #4 hitter behind Votto. We were experimenting with numerous players last year trying to find that "guy". And it's the same this year too.

    Right now, BP is doing a solid job there; but in his career, overall, bating #4, it's been kinda streaky, because that's the type of hitter he is. But we'll see.
    Last edited by GAC; 04-18-2013 at 06:01 AM.
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    Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...

    Brisco Re: The first 12 games of 2012 were worse...
    First it was inexcuseable and now it is unacceptable.

    Unless they are committing a crime or similar civil or moral wrong, I do not think any of us get to use the word "inexcuseable."
    I don't watch the news so "inexcusable" in my world IS waving at strike 3 because you can't check your ego, nut up, shorten up, and put the ball in play. (Yes, life is good here in my world) Errors do happen, even in The Show. I think we saw that yesterday. **cough** Revere **cough**

    If you find their play is "unacceptable" then I guess you choose not to "accept" it. Since you have no power to change the Reds, are you changing what team you root for after 12 games since you no longer accept them?
    Since you've decided to pick literary and logical nits here, please stop the non sequitur. I don't have to root for another team simply b/c I think they could do a better job at one aspect or another. Helll, the Cubs still have fans
    Also any team that leads the league in Ks with RISP has "...a lack of heart, lack of skill, lack of baseball IQ, or some combination thereof."

    I believe that every single team in baseball will have a twelve game stretch (if you cherry pick it) this year where they will lead the league in some negative offensive stat.

    Heck, I would not be surprised if both the 75 and 76 Reds led the league in KRISP during some 12 game stretch.

    Did they have..."a lack of heart, lack of skill, lack of baseball IQ, or some combination thereof."?
    For the stretch in question, yes. And for the record, I said it "shows" a lack of heart,....so as to be more temporary. Not the more permenant sounding "has" or "have".
    Please stop the hyperbole.
    The definition of hyperbole includes the phrase "not to be taken literally"....Lighten up Francis.
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