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Thread: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

  1. #46
    Member mdccclxix's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    I wasn't going to read this thread, but then I saw 7 exclamation points and figured the contents had to be amazing.

    Incidentally -- we should compile a list of every "Jay Bruce Sucks" / "Jay Bruce is Awesome" threads and just keep it stickied at the top so we can know which thread to be posting in depending on whether Bruce is in a hot or a cold streak.
    Possible sub forum idea?????????

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  3. #47
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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    Jay Bruce, based on the trend he's been heading on the last couple of seasons, was heading towards more power as a hitter and a smaller average, due soley to his pulling the ball for most of his at-bats.

    Stopping pulling the ball will take away the attempts to jack it over the wall in Left, but will result in a much higher average, 30-40 points in Bruce's case.
    No, I understand that.

    What I'm saying is that I can't decide if a higher batting average and less homers is better than a lower batting average and more homers if those are the only things we're looking at.

    I need to know how those affect his OBP and his SLG.

    If it's a wash, then I don't care.

    If it causes his OPS to go up, then I'm all for it.

    If it causes his OPS to go down, then I'm not in favor of it.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nasty_Boy View Post
    Last year Bruce had 141 hits in 560 ABs, for a .252 average... You take away 4 hits, he hits .245... You had 16 he hits .280.

    Would 16 singles be worth 12 HRs?
    You just don't get more hits when you stop pulling the ball. You strike out less often. You move runners over more often. You put the ball in play more often. You keep rallies going more often. The list is long.

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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Raisor View Post
    No, I understand that.

    What I'm saying is that I can't decide if a higher batting average and less homers is better than a lower batting average and more homers if those are the only things we're looking at.

    I need to know how those affect his OBP and his SLG.

    If it's a wash, then I don't care.

    If it causes his OPS to go up, then I'm all for it.

    If it causes his OPS to go down, then I'm not in favor of it.
    I agree that it's a matter of what one prefers. Clearly, the organization preferred that power with Bench. I know Walt loves Left-handed Power hitters.

    It's probably much easier to get a higher OPS w/ pulling the ball, as the homeruns skyrocket the slugging percentage. But, Bruce is notoriously known for hitting a lot of solo homeruns, warranted or not. What good is the slugging percentage if those four total bases are producing only one run?

    I believe Bruce will hit above the .850 OPS mark this season whether he pulls the ball or not. He's just loaded with way too much talent not to do this at his current age.

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    RaisorZone Raisor's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    I agree that it's a matter of what one prefers. Clearly, the organization preferred that power with Bench. I know Walt loves Left-handed Power hitters.

    It's probably much easier to get a higher OPS w/ pulling the ball, as the homeruns skyrocket the slugging percentage. But, Bruce is notoriously known for hitting a lot of solo homeruns, warranted or not. What good is the slugging percentage if those four total bases are producing only one run?

    I believe Bruce will hit above the .850 OPS mark this season whether he pulls the ball or not. He's just loaded with way too much talent not to do this at his current age.

    Homeruns are a Good Thing if there are people on or not. It's not something a batter can control.
    "But I do know Joey's sister indirectly (or foster sister) and I have heard stories of Joey being into shopping, designer wear, fancy coffees, and pedicures."

  7. #51
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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    You just don't get more hits when you stop pulling the ball. You strike out less often. You move runners over more often. You put the ball in play more often. You keep rallies going more often. The list is long.
    But you said you want him to hit to .280 with 28 HRs and not .245 with 40 HRs... I'm okay with him using the entire field (it's a welcome sight), but he needs to drive the ball and have a high slg %. And everything you just listed is situational and hypothetical, not to mention it is not entirely true.
    I know a lot of people are talking about his on-base percentage (.308 in 2008), but I like to think more in terms of him his in-scoring position percentage. - Our Beloved Manager

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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    If I had to guess, I would say Bruce is working to try to stop pulling off the ball. I don't think it's a change in approach, just a determined effort to keep the shoulder in, wait on the ball and take it the other way -- not as a desired result, exactly, but as a means to a greater end (not pulling off the ball so badly). I suspect as he gets more comfortable, we'll see him stop the deliberate effort to go the other way and move back to a more natural swing. Eventually he will start pulling off again and he again will make the concerted effort to go to left field to try to correct it. It will be a constant adjustment.

    Many hitters go through this. Barry Larkin was open in talking about how when he was struggling, he would make a conscious effort to go the other way -- not because he was searching for more hits in right field, but because he felt that was the best way to get his swing where he wanted it.

    It seems to me Bruce isn't as proficient at making those kinds of adjustments as a guy like Larkin or Joey Votto, so the process takes longer and can be tougher to watch. But I applaud him for making the effort.

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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nasty_Boy View Post
    But you said you want him to hit to .280 with 28 HRs and not .245 with 40 HRs... I'm okay with him using the entire field (it's a welcome sight), but he needs to drive the ball and have a high slg %. And everything you just listed is situational and hypothetical, not to mention it is not entirely true.
    Not that pulling the ball or not pulling the ball leads to more walks, but in Bruce's case, I believe he will walk more often by willing to hit more balls to the opposite field, as pitchers will not get as close to the plate with the outside pitch. Total theory on my part, of course.

    That's fine if you do, of course, but do you prefer Bruce hitting .245 w/ 40 HR's or .280 with 28 homeruns?

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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by osuceltic View Post
    If I had to guess, I would say Bruce is working to try to stop pulling off the ball. I don't think it's a change in approach, just a determined effort to keep the shoulder in, wait on the ball and take it the other way -- not as a desired result, exactly, but as a means to a greater end (not pulling off the ball so badly). I suspect as he gets more comfortable, we'll see him stop the deliberate effort to go the other way and move back to a more natural swing. Eventually he will start pulling off again and he again will make the concerted effort to go to left field to try to correct it. It will be a constant adjustment.
    I believe the same thing.

  12. #55
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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Many are missing the main point. It's not that Jay is going to become an opposite field slap hitter and sac power for average and more contact. The main reason for encouragement is that he has ADDED the ability to shorten up and go the other way to his arsenal and can be expected (hoped at least ?) to use this approach WHEN THE SITUATION WARRANTS IT.

    I'm NOT in favor of Jay sacrificing power for average in all situations AT ALL.

    But in many situations, like last nights's last AB vs. Lee, it's nice to see that he can change his appoach (BASED ON THE GAME SITUATION) to win the battle w the pitcher as he did vs. Lee last night, instead of going down meekly with a K, a pop up, or rolling over on an outside pitch and grounding out weakly. In past seasons Jay would have K'd or made another non-productive out against Lee after going down 0-2. This year he won the battle, coaxed Lee and his catcher to generate a WP on the 9th pitch or so, and totally unhinged Lee.
    Last edited by smixsell; 04-16-2013 at 02:00 PM.

  13. #56
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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nasty_Boy View Post
    But you said you want him to hit to .280 with 28 HRs and not .245 with 40 HRs... I'm okay with him using the entire field (it's a welcome sight), but he needs to drive the ball and have a high slg %. And everything you just listed is situational and hypothetical, not to mention it is not entirely true.
    If I had to guess, I'd say kingspoint wasn't trying to cite specific numbers but rather the concept of a higher average with less power over the more power abominably low average combo.
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    Member smixsell's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by osuceltic View Post
    If I had to guess, I would say Bruce is working to try to stop pulling off the ball. I don't think it's a change in approach, just a determined effort to keep the shoulder in, wait on the ball and take it the other way -- not as a desired result, exactly, but as a means to a greater end (not pulling off the ball so badly). I suspect as he gets more comfortable, we'll see him stop the deliberate effort to go the other way and move back to a more natural swing. Eventually he will start pulling off again and he again will make the concerted effort to go to left field to try to correct it. It will be a constant adjustment.

    Many hitters go through this. Barry Larkin was open in talking about how when he was struggling, he would make a conscious effort to go the other way -- not because he was searching for more hits in right field, but because he felt that was the best way to get his swing where he wanted it.

    It seems to me Bruce isn't as proficient at making those kinds of adjustments as a guy like Larkin or Joey Votto, so the process takes longer and can be tougher to watch. But I applaud him for making the effort.
    Almost certainly true to some extent, but I don't think you're going to see him forget the lesson he has learned so quickly this time. But hey, I'm an optimist.

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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Caveat Emperor View Post
    I wasn't going to read this thread, but then I saw 7 exclamation points and figured the contents had to be amazing.

    Incidentally -- we should compile a list of every "Jay Bruce Sucks" / "Jay Bruce is Awesome" threads and just keep it stickied at the top so we can know which thread to be posting in depending on whether Bruce is in a hot or a cold streak.
    Cool, I knew that my carefully thought out decision to add that 7th exclamation point was the right one!

  16. #59
    My clutch is broken RichRed's Avatar
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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingspoint View Post
    But, Bruce is notoriously known for hitting a lot of solo homeruns, warranted or not. What good is the slugging percentage if those four total bases are producing only one run?
    Just to address this point:

    Since Bruce entered the league in 2008, 57.6% of HRs across all of MLB have been solo shots. Meanwhile, 60.4% of Jay Bruce's career HRs have been of the solo variety (81 of 134). Not an appreciable difference there. Maybe it just seems like Bruce hits more solo homers because he just plain hits so many homers.
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    Re: Jay Bruce looks like he has become a professional hitter overnight!!!!!!!

    This is the most argumentative sports site I've been on in 20 years of message board posting.
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